I’ve been struggling with this question for years. I just keep going back-and-forth — I love Detroit; it’s the greatest city in the world for car people, and I won’t even hear arguments to the contrary. I can buy running motors for $145, rent a house with a proving ground out back for under $1,000 a month, hang out with car enginerds and designers on a regular basis, tour incredible junkyards and snag dirt-cheap parts every weekend, spend a reasonable amount of money on gas, and just generally do dumb car stuff with great people for cheap. This place really is the Motor City. But I don’t know if I can stay.
You all know me as the rusty Jeep guy from Detroit, but I’m not from here. I have no family here, no childhood roots, and fewer and fewer ties as many of my friends seem to all move away. But I have stayed for nine years — the longest I’ve ever lived in one place. It’s counter to my nature as an “Army Brat,” and indeed, in the early days after my move here from college, I thought for sure I’d be rolling out within a couple of years. But I stuck around because the car culture is unbelievable (and also because I travel out of the country for usually a month or two out of the year, so this keeps things spicy).
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Watch the Instagram video above, and you’ll see what I did today. After waking up, I drove to the legendary Pasteiner’s Cars and Coffee meetup, then headed to a junkyard and gawked over awesome machines with a cool reader named Nick (plus I ran into the legendary engine-carrier, Jeremy Benson, who was wrenching on a Ford Ranger), then helped Nick get unstuck from my muddy backyard “Proving Ground,” and then I just drove around in my brother’s 1966 Mustang to a bunch of car parts stores (and obsessed over how cheaply I can get high-zinc Diesel Oil and high-quality Purolator filters). It was a great day in the month that caps the beginning of half a year of absolutely perfect weather followed by genuine frigid hell.
I know how good I have it here. I can experience things that translate to great content that can help this site thrive, and that, of course, is really important. I have space; cars; a low cost of living; friends and neighbors who genuinely share my passion; specialty car shops run by old-timers who will (cheaply) machine my cylinder heads, replace my leaf spring bushings (and make me custom U-Bolts), braze up my leaky radiator, rebuild my starter motors and generators; no vehicle safety or emissions inspections; a big airport that will get me to Hong Kong, Germany, Australia, or wherever the hell I want to do dumb car things next; car shows damn near everyday; access to tremendous automotive knowledge, and on and on.
Prior to my arrival in Detroit, I had mixed feelings. After having seen documentaries about abandoned Detroit neighborhoods, and after living in the city and witnessing the blight in person, I initially wondered: “Is this still the Motor City?” After nine years I know that the answer is, well, not really — it’s actually the Motor Suburb, but it’s still freaking incredible.
Then why leave?
Well, for one, I don’t know if I’m built to live in one place too long. As I’ve said before, I have no roots anywhere, and my childhood showed me the incredible richness I can get out of life by experiencing new places. And not just a few weeks at a time; many months or years — enough time to really embed myself into new cultures. Remaining in one place is something with which a lot of children of service members struggle.
I’m not going to complain about the winter or the salt; those are what they are, and I’m not sure how much they’re factoring in my decision, anyway. My main considerations involve shaking things up and experiencing something new, and also possibly diversifying my social life outside of work. Regarding the latter point: Is suburban Detroit the ideal place for a single 30 year-old dude to thrive socially? It’s possible that LA is no better, honestly. I don’t have the answers.
Why LA? You’re all now wondering.
It’s tricky. I mean, part of me wants to move to Germany to be with my family — buy an Audi A2 and Renault Twingo, and road trip all over the place. Another part of me wants to move to Kansas or Arkansas, buy a big-ass plot of land, and just go absolutely crazy buying cars by the dozens (though the social scene could be a concern). I anticipate one of those happening at some point. But L.A. offers some opportunities right now; for one, it’s becoming more and more Motor City 2.0. Dozens of my engineering friends from Michigan have moved out west to work for budding EV companies. There’s a lot of great electric vehicle stuff going on over there, and I’d like to be able to explore that side of car culture. I’ve reached a point of diminishing returns when it comes to discovering Detroit’s car scene — the idea of exploring a new one excites me.
Of course, there’s theoretically a decent social scene filled with diverse people — something appealing to me at this point in my life. There’s also The Autopian’s main supporter, Beau Boeckmann and his amazing team — working with them in person could afford our site a number of great opportunities. And really, that’s where my priority needs to be above all else: Trying to do what’s best for this company and its readership; if working with my team out in California helps us, and if it also happens to scratch other itches of mine, then that seems smart. LA is not exactly wrenchtopia, but I’m doing more editing than anything these days. Plus, most of my wrenching seems to be happening on other continents, anyway.
Plus I bet the off-roading is great in California, and the weather will mean year-round wrenching and no rust. Let me repeat that last one: NO RUST. I’ve been in basic training these past nine years; just imagine me wrenching on California cars — I will be a wrenching god!
Obviously, cost of living in insane. Wrenching on junkers on the side of the road in LA sounds, honestly, no worse than fixing crap-cans in 20 below weather here in Michigan, but still not great. Gas is expensive, emissions inspections would definitely preclude my Jeep J10 from going out there (I’d be rolling in the Mustang and my future overlanding rig, my $350 Holy Grail ZJ. Also my FC, though I realize three cars out there will be rough), and I have my concerns about car culture in LA. Is it too exclusive? Is it difficult for the less privileged to get into the car scene? Is it all about wealth flaunting? (For you LA natives, my apologies for the ignorance. That’s just how it looks from the outside). Is a haggard, balding, recovering trenchfoot-er who’s suffered far too many harsh winters wrenching on rusty heaps going to stand out among all the good looking models? Will everyone I interact with either avert their eyes or instantly vomit?
To these, I have no answers.
Honestly, I have no answers to any of this. I do know that I’d want to return to Michigan later in life, because this place feels “free.” There’s very little bullshit here except for an occasional police officer from some fancy suburb pulling me over for passing him in a snowstorm. But otherwise, I can do what you want, and have plenty of space for it.
As for right now? I’m getting antsy, and lots of people in my life keep telling me that hoarding cars in suburban Detroit maybe isn’t the optimal long-term strategy. They’re probably right. Honestly, I could see myself blinking once and then all of a sudden another nine years pass by, I’m still here hanging out with a fleet of cars at age 39, with a stack of ordinance violations on my counter. Honestly, depending on the cars in my fleet, that sounds kind of epic. But also not — again, I’m conflicted.
One thing I’m not conflicted on, after spending the past four hours researching, is how to minimize the cost of maintenance of my fleet. I have found that base-model Purolator oil filters, when purchased in bulk, can be had for less than pretty much any oil filter you can buy, including Walmart Super Tech oil filters (some of which I’m pretty sure are just rebranded Purolators). Check it out — $29.21 for twelve Jeep 4.0/Mustang filters! That’s just $2.43 a pop! As for my Jeep 258 filters, those were a bit more expensive at about $2.80, but still dirt.
These filters, along with diesel engine oil — which is high in zinc (which is good for flat-tappet engines like those in my vehicles), and, when purchased in 15W-40 weight can be had for pennies — basically mean I can change my oil for less than $20. I spent quite a bit of time researching whether I can use my Jeep’s TL14670 filter on my brother’s Mustang. Turns out, I absolutely can. I also read through service manuals and owner’s manuals to see if 15W-40 is an acceptable oil for the Ford 289 and Jeep straight six, and it turns out the answer is yes, in the summer (I don’t drive these vehicles in the winter, anyway). This is all great from a cost-of-maintenance standpoint.
From the Mustang manual (it even says oil as thick as 20W-40 will work):
From an old Jeep manual:
Anyway, that was a hell of a digression, but that’s what my day was like today. Car show, junkyard, mud pit, trips to car parts stores and far too much research on oil change cost minimization. This is normal, right?
I cannot in good conscience recommend LA. There are reasons why but others in the comments have said them already.
You have an itch that can only be scratched in California. If you make yourself stay in Detroit you’ll come to resent it for the missed opportunity. Give yourself a year or two. Detroit will still be there, or you might get another itch. You have the luxury of a job that will let you live most anywhere. I envy you for that and hope you take advantage of it while you’re still young. People love their families and their emotional ties, but most people stay where they are because of their jobs. My two cents and good luck!
We recently moved back east from California after 12 years. My best description of CA is “sunny with a chance of apocalypse.” Between the droughts, fires, earthquakes, traffic, more fires, expensive everything, high taxes, yet more fires…well, we’d had enough.
If the list above is not enough: the water crisis is real and highly likely to get a lot worse, especially in SOCAL; check out recent photos of Lake Mead and Lake Powell at recent photos if you don’t believe me. Oh, and electricity is forecast to be in short supply this summer as well.
We miss our friends out there, but we do not miss the high costs and frequent cataclysms. We now live in a great house on a large lot in a great neighborhood, adjacent to both a national park and a major regional park. We would never, ever have been able to afford a place like this anywhere in California; in the Midwest, it’s paid off.
On the plus side, the annual CA car tax is based on the value of the vehicle, so you’d be in good shape there.
The drought situation is pretty bad state-wide. We live in the Bay Area and it rained less times than I can count on one hand. And its been like that…. for years. When I moved here 22 years ago it rained fairly regularly during the winter. It has not really done that for at least 5-6 years now.
You’re clearly looking for reasons *not* to move to LA, because you really want to. I say sell all the shitboxes and see what kind of friends-and-family deal Beau can get you on an EV, and do it.
I’m not driving a Mach-E. (Not that it’s bad, I’m just not into boring crossovers).
No.
I did California for a little while 20 years ago. Nobody likes outdoor wrenchers then. It’s worse now. Try it if you must. But you may find it restricting and expensive. You seem more likely to find happiness in the country where you can grow your collection and experiment without Karens and regulations breathing down your neck.
David, YOU ARE the car scene…it doesn’t matter where you are. Give LA a try, you’ll be richer the experience regardless of how it works out.
If you like old-school (and just plain old)(like me) gas-engine cars, the California of the future may not be the car utopia it was in the past. The state has outlawed the sale of new gas powered cars after 2035. I imagine long before then, people who drive anything but an EV will be looked down upon and shunned like lepers in the Middle Ages. It already seems to be the case in northern California. If you don’t drive a Tesla, the locals consider you sub-human. LA can’t be much different.
If you love cars California was the place to be – 20 or 30 years ago. California’s future is soulless, anodyne, boring EV autonomous transportation pods. Today, you’ll be among your own kind in Detroit. Use all the money you’ll save by not living in one of the most soul-crushingly expensive places in the world to travel to your heart’s content. Buy an old VW Camper, or some 80’s psychedelic van, or anything you can put a sleeping bag and porta-potti in, and travel far and often.
The problem with LA for you is that you will need to park your cars in the ocean to get that signature undercarriage patina your prefer. That and, something something about them caring about the environment (or pretending to). You will have to learn all sorts of new stuff about emissions controls.
Why LA specifically? What if you lived a couple hours drive from LA? Much cheaper, more space, still no rust, still great mountains, and you can drive your jeep whatever into town whenever you need to
For cost of living, scarcity of rust, space and freedom LA isn’t where you want. Idaho. Nevada. Eastern Oregon. Go visit first if you haven’t been to LA yet. Make sure you drive while you are there lol …
Old motorhead guy here. I left the San Gabriel Valley some 31 years ago for the Pacific Northwest. It was of the top 3 best choices I’ve made in my life. Small town anywhere on a bad day, is better than the best day in LA. Don’t do it.
You should definitely join us out here in the sticks.
Land and gas is cheap out here (specifically, Oklahoma), and because winter is relatively short and salt is used sparingly, rust isn’t that much of an issue.
We even have an electric vehicle manufacturer coming here (Canoo).
We have a road racing circuit here (Hallett), drag strips, countless small dirt tracks, off road parks, sand dunes, and the longest stretch of Route 66 of any state!
Check us out!!
The runners in your fleet can probably pass California smog check if they are in reasonable tune. Vehicles just have to meet the standards in place when they were built.
I have a 26yo shitbox that burns 1qt/500mi and passes smog check just fine.
1975 and older cars don’t need a smog check either.
I’m all for SoCal, though as a San Diego native I’ve never particularly loved L.A. itself. But I’ve lived in and around L.A. for the past 30 years, and its car culture is pretty much what made the city what it is. Yeah, the cost of living is high. I’ve lived here so long I’m used to it (until I hear how cheap your rent is in Michigan. Under $1K? For a house?! With a big yard?!), but if you can afford it, it’s worth it. I cannot overstate the value of the warm, dry, sunny climate for someone who wants to keep cars on the road! The car culture is year-round! Good wrenching weather is year-round! You don’t have to hole up for six months because of salt on the roads, and the concept of the Winter Beater is wholly unknown here. Even our beaters are year-round! The cars don’t collapse into a pile of brown flakes. Even the rusty ones from out of town stop getting any rustier. I personally don’t like dealing with smog issues on project cars, but that’s because I’m lazy, and my tastes don’t run to Radwood-era crap anyway. But you definitely have the skillset to make all your machines smog-legal since you focus so hard on making them run well. Safety inspections aren’t a thing here, just emissions, so you can ace it no problem.
As for wrecking yards, take your Google Maps over to the Sun Valley area in the northeast corner of the San Fernando Valley, just north of Burbank. Alas, Memory Lane has been closed for years, but there are still a bunch of solid junkyards in the neighborhood to pick over. And again: no rust! No wrestling with that suspension part you need while lying in the snow!
It does come down to supply and demand. It costs so much to live here because so many people know it’s worth it. You definitely can find some savings by living some distance out of town, like maybe the high desert communities, but I have long harbored a suspicion that you habitually hoard fair-weather articles from your trips and summertime wrenching adventures not because you’re too busy to write and post them right after they happen, but because you need stuff to post during those long dark frosty snowed-in Michigan winters when there’s absolutely no humanly possible way to generate car-related content without dying of frostbite!
Also, the car culture here is far from snooty and exclusive. Never mind the Hollywood types, most Angelenos are from here, and grew up immersed in the culture, and they’re genuinely friendly with those who share that car-centric interest.
Hell, if L.A. is prohibitively expensive then maybe try some cheaper warm-climated area. Just dig yourself out of that rustbelt snowbank already!
Here’s my two cents:
I grew up in Detroit and still have some family and friends there but most everyone has moved on, as you know. I miss the D from time to time, and will always rep it with a Tigers hat or something, but I have a hard time with wanting to go back. No doubt the summers are amazing (doubly so when on a boat for the afternoon/sunset), and one of its best characteristics is the fact that everyone minds their own business for the most part, for sure. It’s a fucking cool ass town with so much history and vibe.
However, I’ve moved on. Spent years in NYC, but didn’t care for it after a while. Traveled extensively and have been most everywhere in the US, including LA several times for extended periods. With all that said…
Based on your writing and how open you are about your life, I feel OK at least making this assumption. LA is not for you. I don’t think you will like it all that much or really feel comfortable there. It’s a very strange place once you get over the “newness” of it all. Every place is different (obviously) but as someone with some Detroit in my blood, it’s the wrong kind of difference in my opinion. Just a goofy vibe there.
I could maybe see you down near San Diego somewhere, or as someone else said, up north near Tahoe if Cali has to be the choice. Someone else wrote Austin. Austin does tick a lot of boxes for you, and it’s a neat town with major airline hubs, hot Texas ladies, and plenty of space if you can handle the traffic, so that’s actually a pretty good place. I’d also recommend Nashville or Knoxville. Nashville has gotten spendy lately, but there are places in East Nashville that’d fit the bill better (budget-wise) as long as you are aware of the neighborhood, and there’s something to do every day all day. Knoxville is a college town (translation cheaper and lots of social activities), with a bunch of 30-ish people as well. I didn’t expect to like it as much as I did, but it’s pretty sweet. Also, the whole taxes thing applies for both TX and TN. I’d also toss a hat in the ring for Savannah. Tons of engineers there and also a cool vibe and all that. Great social scene as well. The airport is limited, but you can’t have everything.
I dunno. It all depends on what you want. Either way, I say fuck it, go anywhere. Detroit isn’t going away and it always welcomes home its pop swilling, Buddy’s eating, car obsessives when they show up for a visit or whatever. It’s all gonna be a learning experience one way or another, which is the whole point of life. I’ve written too much, ha. You’ll figure it out!
Tennessee native who grew up in Nashville. Its insane how much it has changed. It was a shithole when I was a kid. Downtown was a ghost town. And up until a few years ago it was stupidly cheap. I’ve lived in California 22 years and it was always in the back of my head that hey- sell the overpriced California house, move back home. Well, now home is not the super cheap steal it used to be. I also don’t care to come back and see the shit tons of MAGA signs as soon as you leave the city limits, which being a small city, doesn’t take very long. Some things I miss. Like actual green grass, seasons, the food and the other things I grew up with.
Yes, Nashville has changed dramatically over the past 15 yrs or so. Some good, some bad. As someone who has a thing for blonde girls who can sing and play guitar, that town is Mecca for them. It’s fascinating and I’ll never be disappointed to travel back for a visit.
As for the other part of your reply, I’ll be that guy. Please keeps the political stuff and divisive opinions about it on the other site. There is no place for that stuff here. Not everyone thinks about it as much as you do. The whole article is about giving David advice. I’m sure he has his political opinions figured out by age 30 and is aware of the various general mores of different regions in the US.
-Thanks in Advance
I don’t think you’d want to live in LA proper, but the areas in the desert in surrounding San Bernardino county could be a good fit for a guy with a project car addiction, and the housing costs would be a fraction of what they’d be in the city.
David,
No. Not LA. Not even the greater LA sprawl, unless you’re ready to radically change your lifestyle. No more fleet of 10 project cars, and you’ll have to see if you can even afford a garage. You’d also be moving to the state that wants to ban ICE in 10 years or less. Also the most expensive gas in the country. And taxes.
What about Europe? Or Thailand? Or Australia?
Go for it! I’m planning on moving to LA myself, as there’s an amazing old BMW scene there, and as somebody that fixes old BMW’s for a living, that’s my bread and butter.
L.A. is a very big place and you choose your own adventure. You can do anything here. You can’t always do it all at once.
If you get a big place you’ll fill it up.
Work remotely and only go into town once or twice a week. Get on the back side of the mountains and enjoy the trails. Bring the Mustang and one Jeep. Two cars in the driveway and one (ONLY ONE) project in the garage.
DT, as partial as I am to my Detroit area home, if I were your age, able to work remotely, and wanting to travel, I’d buy a camper and work from the road. Go explore this country, work from campground or backyards, and check out the car culture and junkyards all around this nation. Find a place to park it when you want to travel outside the country. You know people will be excited when you come to their area and will show off the car culture in that area. You can boondock for free or get campgrounds with hook-ups for $25-35 a night. Starlink can get you dependable internet now.
I’m hoping to do this more in a few years. I have 3 years before my youngest heads off to College. I fully plan on taking some longer trips with our trailer then, especially now that I can work remotely (thanks for at least something positive happening because of Covid). For now, it’s long weekends and occasion week long trips, but we only get out 4-5 times a year.
I feel compelled to tell my LA story here. In July of 2005, I moved from St Paul to Los Angeles more or less on a whim. I wa stuck in a rut professionally, my friends were all pairing up and having kids while I remained painfully single, and Minnesota just had too many ghosts of stupid things I’d done in the past. So I sold or gave away damn near everything, crammed the rest of my possessions in (and on) my Mazda Protegé, and headed west.
I hated it at first. I got an apartment in Glendale that I was told came with a carport, then after I signed the lease they informed me “No, we have 15 units and 10 carports, so you’re on the waiting list, in the meantime it’s street parking for you.” I had a line on a job as a photographer’s assistant with Edmunds.com, basically driving the cars while they took photos, but to make ends meet I had to take a job at a sign shop in north Long Beach (to folks who don’t know LA, that’s 25 miles and four freeways away from Glendale). The sign shop was in an industrial park where I didn’t have cell service, and after missing three calls from the HR person at Edmunds, I lost out on the opportunity. The temporary job became permanent, and I began to make plans to slink back to Minnesota with my tail between my legs as soon as my six-month lease was up.
Then I met Erika. She and I met in November and hit it off immediately, were engaged by New Year’s, and got married the following October. Sixteen years later and she’s still the best thing that ever happened to me. She introduced me to her circle of friends, an incredible group of folks from all walks of life, most of whom we’re still friends with today. And through all of them, I had experiences I never would have had in Minnesota.
But I still had to drive to Long Beach every day, and hour there and two hours home, and resented it every day because of the job that might have been. At least Erika and I could carpool; her job was about halfway to mine, so I dropped her off on the way. One morning, stuck in traffic on the 60 freeway, she looked around and said, “You know, if we’re staying here for my sake, let’s not stay.”
We moved to Oregon six months later, and have put down roots here. I complain about a lot of aspects of the city of Portland, and I still have a day job that bores me to tears, but we have a nice house that didn’t cost much, room to do things (including wrench on cars), and a whole new circle of friends.
My entire time in Los Angeles was only about two and a half years. I’m happy I went, but even happier we left. LA is one of those places that fundametally changes you, for better or for worse. The trouble is you can’t tell until you get there which it’s going to be.
This is all probably no help at all.
Man you’re a good writer. An automotive publication would be LUCKY to have you write, say, daily stories about shitboxes.
Aw, shucks…
His new column about shitboxes:
“Tucker-d Out”
“The Daily Tuck Tuck”
“WTF Tuck?”
“Tuck in the Muck” (if off-road is his jam)
“Tuck My Ride”
Is that the door? I believe I will see myself right out.
I knew two marines from Los Angeles and they will never go back because it cost too damn much. Then again they were enlisted not officers.
If you are interested my family is selling 11 acres of land for $80,000. Right outside of Ridgeland South Carolina about an hour from Savannah Georgia.
Personally I’m on two acres with a three-bedroom trailer and two campers for rent. The campers run off of City Water and Electric. 350 a month.
Right now I have a skoolie in the front yard along with a Dodge Caliber and a C5 and a C3 Corvette. I won’t mind your Jeeps.
I lived like you for 6 years. Kept hoarding cars in a country house in Algarve, Portugal. Almost went broke and with the 2011 recession lost my job. I had to sell 2 Fords, a Taunus and a Scorpio (being half german you them know well); after a long unemployment period got a job in Lisbon and only did roling projects (I bought a diesel Mercedes 190 and rebuilt it while using it every day. Being 30some at this time I felt that long and hard wrenching can literally the end of your own personal time, which will only become more of a nightmare.
Still, I keep working on my cars but now have a Civic and a large confortable french diesel saloon, and plan repairs well ahead and to minimum effort, in order to keep menthal sanity and finantial health. I kept hoarding cars and endless painful hours of work on cars because I had been too alone for too much time.
Being married to rust doesnt really get you laid nor will you find a lifetime companion. Sell your junk cars; keep 2 or 3 in good condition and get a dating app! There will always be cars to wrench on but focus on you right now.
David I lived like you for 6 years. Kept hoarding cars in a country house in Algarve, Portugal. Almost went broke and with the 2011 recession lost my job. I had to sell 2 Fords, a Taunus and a Scorpio (being part german you know them well); after a long unemployment period got a job in Lisbon and only did roling projects (I bought a diesel Mercedes 190 and rebuilt it while using it every day); being 30some at this time I felt that long and hard wrenching can literally be the end of your own personal time, which will only become more of a nightmare.
Still, I keep working on my cars but now have a Civic and a large confortable french diesel saloon, and plan repairs well ahead and to minimum effort, in order to keep menthal sanity and finantial health. I kept hoarding cars and endless painful hours of work on cars because I had been too alone for too much time.
Being married to rust doesnt really get you laid nor will you find a lifetime companion. Sell your junk cars; keep 2 or 3 in good condition and get a dating app! There will always be cars to wrench on but focus on yourself right now. You’ve earned it!
(Editing a comment may need some work!)
LA is so 2010. Anyone who is anyone is now moving to Austin, TX. A little warm in the summer but easy flights to both coasts so you can attend car events.
I’d put the decision on the back burner for a while. Let’s see how big this website gets. Having a “local guy” for the big 3 PR departments to deal with may be a big win-win.
One of your goals with Autopian was in depth technical content, having the house engineer be the oultlet for a manufacturer’s tech PR team will make them happy.
Engineers love taking engineery to other engineers!
It could be difficult to find a good place to come back to if he doesn’t like it.
It might be worth paying rent on the place in Michigan for an extra month or two, staying flexible and making the final decision a little later.