I’ve been thinking a lot about the Ford Maverick lately and finally got my hands on one so I could undertake an important car mission: Convince my family to swap our trusty Subaru Forester for a Maverick. Below is a rundown of all the arguments I made and how they were received.
Just to clarify from the start: I am not anti-crossover. Crossovers are great. I will probably need to write a “defense of crossovers” post here because, like Coldplay or hotel breakfasts, they’re maligned far out of proportion to their usefulness or occasional unpleasantness. [Editor’s Note: Crossovers are like wagons, except top-heavier and less efficient. In my eyes, if they aren’t good off-road, they compromise too much for ground clearance/a high H-point that nobody needs. But I’m not anti-any type of car, because I know that people love sitting up high just for the sake of it. -DT]
Our Subaru Forester is a 2016 in Premium trim with the 2.5-liter naturally aspirated boxer four and CVT. For that generation of crossovers I think it’s the best option, balancing out value, capability, and space. It’s been with us since my daughter was only a few months old and has gotten through her jam hands stage remarkably well. Its main downsides are: A CVT transmission I don’t particularly love, worse-than-expected fuel mileage for short trips around town, boring silver paint, and a terrible infotainment system with no Apple CarPlay.
Would trading a Forester for a Maverick solve any of these problems? It would solve some of them and, potentially, make new ones. But I’m enamored with the small truck and want a shiny new toy so I went hard in arguing for it.
Just to provide some detail: I’m waiting for Ford to hopefully announce a plug-in hybrid AWD version or, at least, a non plug-in AWD hybrid version. Just to keep consistent, I’m going to assume we’d buy a Hybrid in XLT with the XLT Luxury Package.
ARGUMENT ONE: IT’S MORE EFFICIENT
This is the easiest argument to make. My Forester, stock, gets 24 mpg city and 32 mpg highway. Every route to my daughter’s school or my wife’s work requires meeting, at minimum, five stoplights or stop signs. In reality, there are often more stops. It’s a punishing trip and it means we are lucky to touch 21 mpg regularly.
You realize the maximum efficiency (in terms of fuel usage) from the Maverick hybrid at lower speeds where the electric motor is doing all or most of the work of moving the vehicle, which is why it gets 42 mpg city, 33 mpg highway. In practice, people on the Maverick Truck Club forums report even better mileage. I assume my highway mileage will be comparable, as the Forester has been in the 31-33 mpg range on most highway trips.
My expectation is that I can see a 50% increase in efficiency on local routes, which is approximately 6,000 miles annually. If the Maverick needs 142.9 gallons of fuel at $4.00 per gallon (I can dream) then I’m spending $571.43 for those trips. It’s $1,142.86 for my Forester under the same conditions, so I’m saving nearly $600 a year. Assuming I keep the truck for six years, that’s $3,600, which is not nothing!
There’s also the smug satisfaction of being better for the environment.
How well did this argument do? 10/10.
[Editor’s Note: I agree. Compelling. -DT]
ARGUMENT TWO: IT’S CHEAPER***
Oh the asterisks. The Maverick is an incredible value in theory. As optioned, an XLT Hybrid with the XLT Luxury Package, a factory soft-folding bed cover, and manual sliding rear window is $28,565 after destination charges. Assuming I’d just replace my current Forester with another Forester, a new one with the Premium package and the addition of rear-seat UBS chargers and the rear seatback protector is $30,427, delivered.
Apples-to-apples I think the Maverick has more of the features I want with the Luxury Package. Over six years of ownership, I’d save more than $5,000 just on relative MSRP and fuel savings.
*In reality, currently, the MSRP of everything is up. Subaru has the tightest supplies at the moment and two dealers I called didn’t even have Foresters to sell. The Maverick might even be in more demand. I’m not going to be making this transaction soon, so hopefully this will settle down over time.
**I’d like to get an AWD version if I can’t get a plug-in AWD hybrid and those, likely, will put it at the same price point.
***All of that money I save will be used on truck accessories. I’m not dumb.
****It’s way cheaper to just keep the car we have.
How well did this argument do? 5/10.
[Editor’s Note: Personally, I think a base $20,000 Maverick, if you could find one, is one of the greatest deals in recent automotive history. -DT].Â
ARGUMENT THREE: IT’S MORE USEFUL
It’s a truck! We live in a city! Try not to imagine all the contradictions contained within those two statements and instead think of all the things we can, but almost certainly will not, move. Put in your mind grapes he sheer joy I will experience at slowly and methodically optimizing the storage.
As mentioned above, I am planning to get a soft tonneau cover so that I can use the truck bed as my own, giant, washable trunk. The Forester swallows an impressive 34.4 cubic feet of stuff with the seats all the way up which, with a kid, they almost always are. If I’m making a solo Ikea run I can transport 74.7 cubic feet.
The bed of the Maverick is 54.4 long and 53.3 inches wide and provides roughly 33.3 cubic feet of storage. While this is slightly below what the Forester has, the reality is I don’t love stuffing it like a turducken to the roof so I’d give the Maverick the edge here.
Plus, with Ford’s FlexBed system I can create an amazing setup for every day life that keeps my camping chairs and the tools I travel with in a compartment nearest the cabin. I’ll mark off the middle section for stuff I semi-regularly carry, like coolers and my daughter’s cooler. The section closest to the tailgate will be marked off for groceries (except in the hottest months) and other day-to-day items.
For camping, I’ll have a completely different setup, which is going to allow for both excellent storage of our tents/sleeping bags and a tailgate cooking solution using my small camp stove and the 110 outlet built into the rear of the bed.
Finally, one cannot own a Forester or Maverick too long without wanting to buy a damn kayak. It’s as inevitable as the dawn or me joining Facebook groups for cars I don’t even own. You can definitely fit a kayak comfortably on a Forester, but I’ve got a whole plan for how to build a rail system to run the kayak/s so it extends over the roof and stays mostly within the dimensions of the vehicle itself.
How well did this argument do? 3/10.
ARGUMENT FOUR: WE GAIN A LOT OF FEATURES WE WANT
The Forester has bluetooth audio, it works fine. I would much rather have Apple CarPlay, which just makes life easier and gives me navigation and a host of other apps far out of reach out Subaru’s clunky, distracting system. It’s not worth buying a new car for, but it’s nice.
We can also get a real color! The new Foresters have a red color and a green color that are too muted to be fun, so even if we wanted to replace our silver (technically “ice blue”) model with a newer one we don’t have much choice. We can get a Maverick in Cyber Orange or Velocity Blue. These definitely stand out. I sort of wish that the steel wheels were an option on the XLT trim, but I’d definitely get a set for winter tires.
The XLT Luxury Package also adds a rear 400W/110v invert with an outlet in the rear seat (+USB) and another outlet in the bed. These two items have the potential to nicely improve my camping setup and assist with all the powered items a modern 6-year-old demands.
The final perk is the wired trailer hitch. The Forester has a towing capacity of 1,500 pounds, The XLT Hybrid is rated only for 2000 pounds, but that’s already a big improvement and adds the potential of getting some more interesting towable campers.
How well did this argument do? 6/10.
ARGUMENT FIVE: IT’S NOT THAT DIFFERENT
My wife, also being a native Texan, has owned a pickup. When we first started dating in college she had a ’90s Dodge Ram short bed/single cab with the Magnum V6. Ride and handling was about what you’d expect.
The Maverick is a unibody mini-truck that’s based on a crossover, and in a week of driving the EcoBoost model around Houston it didn’t feel that distinguishable from the Forester. The ride was every so slightly worse, but if you compare Car and Driver skidpad numbers the XL Hybrid and Forester the Maverick actually performs better (.81 g to .78 g). There are a lot of variables here, but the low center of gravity has to help.
What I think ultimately sold it for the family was a moment near the end of our trip when we hit one of those ferocious gullywashers that plague Houston commutes and found ourselves in what felt like a scene from the film Twister, sans the J-10 Honcho (sorry David).
Faced with water a few inches deep, gusty winds, and limited visibility the Maverick barely flinched. Would the Forester have also been fine? Absolutely (in fact, the Forester has slightly higher ground clearance). But the storm washed away any lingering feelings the family had that the Maverick would come with any significantly reduced dynamic capability.
How well did this argument do? 3/10.
ARGUMENT SIX: IT’S COOL
I have driven literally hundreds of different cars over the last decade of doing this and, for the most part, the cars I drive go unnoticed, with two major exceptions: I once had a woman jump out of her car to take a picture of the Veyron Vitesse I was driving [Editor’s Note: Weird flex, but OK. -DT] and I’m fairly certain I caused a very low-speed fender bender when a man in traffic tried to take a photo of the Polestar 1 I was in and didn’t notice traffic in front of him had stopped.
Do people notice the Maverick? Hell yes they do. I definitely noticed people slowing down in traffic to take a look, pausing a moment to look inside as they walk across the parking lot. When driving to return the truck there was a Chevy Astro van with a ladder tied to the roof and the driver kept slowing down to pace me until, finally, I caught his eye and he gave me an enthusiastic thumbs up. [Editor’s Note: Wait until supply chain woes clean up, and these will be everywhere. Before you know it, people will stop noticing. -DT]
Not everyone will care, but for people who do care, the Maverick is cool. As Kath and Kim might say: It’s nice, it’s different, it’s unusual.
The textured cloth seats are great. The orange touches on the inside are interesting. Everyone in the family loved the random cubbies everywhere. It’s not a lot of truck for a truck, but it’s a lot of design and thought for anything under $30k.
How well did this argument do? 1/10 “Just for the Kath and Kim reference”
IN CONCLUSION
I’m not likely to buy a truck now, when the prices are so high and the inventory so low. I’m also still holding out for an AWD hybrid option. Once that becomes available? I’ll probably put down a deposit and see if anything else catches my eye before it is finally built.
[Full disclosure: Ford let me borrow this car for a week and gave it to me with a full tank of gas and an understanding that I might not give it back. I had to go to LA, though, so I did.]
I’ve looked at the Maverick and considered how it would suit my life. On the whole, I would probably find it very useful as a commuter car that has some light truck attributes. There are two major downsides though that likely disqualify it for me.
#1- I prefer regular cars. I like having something that can whip around tight corners without leaning. My daily commute needs all the fun it can get.
#2- Dogs. I have a 60 pound pit bull and a schnauzer mix puppy who will be at least that size based on how fast he is growing. An enclosed cargo space allows me to put one dog back there while the other sits on the back seat next to my kid. With an open bed I’d have to at least get a tall cap for one of the dogs, and it would still be pretty unpleasant for them because of the noise and not being able to see or smell us. Entry and exit height is another problem with any truck/CUV/SUV. Hip height seating does a dog no favors. My pit has bad knees, so something with a low entry height is much more comfortable for her.
Don’t feed the beast! Keep you current vehicle for another year, you can handle it, by this time next year dealer’s will be begging for people to just look at these. Maybe it’s just because I’m an old but these market-cycle things are not new & all the promises about “new ways of selling cars” are just that. Patience, grasshopper.
Keep the Forester and get a beater Leaf for in-town commuting. The Leaf will be more comfortable, more fun to drive, and cheaper to own than the Maverick. The Forester is a better camping rig than the Maverick: more storage space and better off-road geometry.
Cars are tools, and there’s a right tool for every job.
I was lucky enough to snag a XL Hybrid on the lot in January, and have been really pleased with it. Very similar use cases to you – mostly in town driving, and I easily get 50Mpg+ in those situations.
Since it’s an XL and laughably didn’t come with cruise control, I did add it later with the forscan mod. Super easy. Since then I’ve taken it on a handful of 500-1500 mile road trips, and ended up averaging 37-42mpg on each trip, mostly interstate driving. The efficiency is unreal. If it never got on the highway for extended driving, I’m pretty sure I could get it to average 55-60+ without too much effort.
I think my ideal version of this truck is the PHEV AWD version that we all hope is coming. Even 20-30 electric miles would cover 90% of my drives, and the extended mode would cover camping trips, etc without 45-60min charging station fill-ups…just not a doable thing with a little kid. Honestly a body on frame PHEV ranger or Tacoma suits all of my needs, but the Mav version would be close enough.
So yeah, I think your arguments are sound – it’s a great freaking vehicle.
That said, I am considering selling it if (1) the used market remains seller friendly, and (2) if a Bolt can be had for around ~$20k once the tax credit stuff is sorted out. My wife’s RAV4 prime can handle enough of the road trip/truck/crossover stuff we need, and the idea of getting a pretty solid EV that cheap just makes too much sense as a 2nd car. Anyway, we’ll see.
You gave it back?
My wife’s daily driver since 2015 has been an EV. My daily driver since 2018 has been an EV. I don’t see either one of us wanting to go back to an ICE vehicle. We’ve had a rotation of Crosstreks for our new drivers that have provided us a little bit more utility in the situations where a sedan doesn’t work. 95% of the time, I don’t need anything else. When I do, there’s no alternative to a truck.
We recently bought a mountain vacation property. AWD/4WD is a must for us. I’ve had to rent a truck several times already this year, and paid enough that I could have made 3 or 4 monthly payments on a truck of my own. More than once, I’ve had to rearrange plans for work at the property because a rental truck wasn’t available at any of the agencies near me (and paying for mileage on a U-Haul would be outrageously expensive). I even considered a used beater, but with used prices higher than stickers for new, that doesn’t make any sense either. If anyone had an AWD Hybrid or AWD EV truck on the market right now that was available (that excludes indeterminately long waiting lists and outrageous dealer markups), I would have bought it months ago.
The maverick really is the first viable, compelling not-full-size truck. The ridge line is decent, but still gets low 20s mpg, and the rest sacrifice significant interior and bed space relative to minor improvements in drive ability and price. The maverick is actually small enough to be easy to drive, cheap enough to overlook some compromises, gets good to great mpg, and has an interior that is actually interesting.
I had one of the old style escapes, v6 and awf. Despite what anyone says it was a great car-it’d get down roads that 2wd trucks couldn’t, it was super tiny which made it great in the city, the interior was well thought out to maximize space, and it could tow several thousand pounds without complaint. Also, at 200000 miles, those interior materials derided as cheap or hard still looked 90% new (despite hauling lumber and kayaks regularly). The maverick is that design ethos with a truck bed. If it’d been out, I likely would have bought one (for the same price I paid for a 5 yo f150). It’d haul a motorcycle just fine and I already have to use a trailer to buy 12ft lumber anyways.
We had a 2008 AWD Hybrid and that thing was great, 30 mpg in daily driving, great traction and quite durable. The wife unfortunately rear ended someone with it so that was that at just under 170k. The interior still looked 90% new as you said. Our Daughter In Law has one that is at 180k plus with the leather interior looking 95% new.
With good tires ours was amazing in the snow.
I am surprised noone suggested a 1,000hp diesel. Dually rear wheels, 40 feet long chauffer driven, seats 60. Take the bus. Lol
I dunno about where you live but all the busses in my area are either electric or NGV hybrids.
Desperately trying to get my wife to buy one of these. She is always hauling around plants, furniture, lumber, all sorts of stuff in her FORD FOCUS. She wants a crossover but a maverick will fit her needs sooooo much better. The rav4’s she looks at cost the same with 60k miles as the maverick does new. But she doesn’t want to be a girl driving a truck, which I flat out don’t understand. Endlessly frustrating because I know she would absolutely love it after one week.
All God’s Children need a new Maverick. We need commercials detailing why randomly selected Maverick drivers, with interesting use cases, purchased their particular model. We need a bunch of new Maverick owners to go to a local drive-in, and have a party while watching old western movies. And also, but not insignificantly, we need to have a 30 second TV spot, where new owners hold up the gas pump receipts for their monthly fuel bill, visibly showing the totals, but with no dialog whatsoever. Just silence. And receipts.
I feel all of this. We have a 2016 CX-5. We’ll probably just keep it for a while because it’s paid for and Maverick inventories are still non-existent.
The wife and I recently had a similar talk about a Maverick for a next car. She’s not sold on the idea of a ute, but I think she’d go for a plug-in hybrid.
I still need to test drive one- I’m a fat SOB and I don’t really fit in an Escape.
I was thinking about this the other day, but what about taking Santa Cruz as an alternative. Especially since they are not getting the huge markups that the Maverick is getting at dealerships right now?
I personally find the Santa Cruz visually unappealing. I just dislike sail pillars on trucks. The Santa Cruz is also more expensive, gets mediocre fuel economy (fairly certain full size trucks can beat it), doesn’t offer a hybrid option, and the bed is smaller than the already small Maverick bed.
Having driven neither, it is my understanding the Santa Cruz offers a more composed and quieter ride. I am very interested in a Maverick, but good luck getting a hybrid. My 2017 Mazda 6 with the OEM Dunlops is like riding in a rock polishing barrel*, so a quieter ride in my next vehicle is important. That may disqualify the Maverick, as it is essentially the entry level vehicle in the Ford line-up.
*This is hyperbole, but the interior is far from serene. I’ve read replacing the Dunflops will improve the noise considerably, but they refuse to wear out.
I want one of these bad (a Tremor would be excellent). Super bummed you can’t option one with a manual.
That photo of your daughter is great!
Well firstly the Maverick is not a Truck, it’s a pickup, like the VW Rabbit Pickup.
That being said it’s a wonderful pickup.
I personally don’t want to buy another ICE powered car (including hybrids) unless it has a manual transmission and so I’m waiting in hopes they’ll make a 6 speed manual transmission Maverick and hopefully by that time Ford will have solved the various non drivetrain related issues the Maverick has. However at this point I’d settle for a 3 speed Manual Maverick.
That being said I really dig the non digital gauges and all the manual features on the Maverick Hybrid and I hate the Maverick just enough I get the feeling I’d be able to treat it like a work trailer that happens to be self propelled. That being said I’d probably end up banana-ing the Maverick before my warranty was up by going full send everywhere and generally abusing it.
Life is short, buy what you like, sounds like the Forester has paid for itself. We love our Forester, have an old Ranger for truck stuff, but if they come out with a Plug-in Maverick it’d be really tempting to consolidate those 2, and then just have a ‘fun car’ for the 2nd, once the market cools down some of course.
As with many other vehicles that are popular around here, I personally don’t really get the appeal of the Maverick.
That said, I’m 100% in favor of buying what you want, and of allowing yourself to be a bit irrational when it comes to automotive shopping. So I say go for it.
“As with many other vehicles that are popular around here, I personally don’t really get the appeal of the Maverick.”
I feel like you should be able to get the appeal without sharing it. Just like it’s always off-putting when people pretend to not get why trucks are popular, when they just mean they don’t personally agree.
Perhaps the better way to say it is I’m surprised so many people have found the value proposition of a Maverick so compelling vs other vehicles.
But it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been wrong about what others like.
I feel like crossover price and amenities, but with a pickup bed was going to have a ton of appeal as long as it was packaged well.
That was basically the premise of the Ridgeline, which was and is critically acclaimed but has never sold very well.
Making a smaller and cheaper version of that was not something that I expected to work as well as it has. Small and cheap are not generally traits associated with success in the American market.
The Ridgeline has always only been sold in basically high trims, and does fine within that limitation.
If they sold a Ridgeline that was equipped like a base Pilot, they’d sell a ton more.
And small and cheap is still relative here. This is smaller than a traditional truck, but it’s still an Escape with a bed, and is fine, given that. If they made a Civic with a pickup bed, it would fail, of course.
“If they made a Civic with a pickup bed, it would fail, of course.”
I’m no longer as sure of that as I used to be. The Escape/Maverick/Bronco Sport still shares architecture with a Focus that we no longer get, and the Maverick’s wheelbase is barely a foot longer than a Civic’s or CRV’s. There may not be a limit on what people will buy if it’s branded a truck.
Well, except crossovers are also popular and cars are not. Mixing popular things has a better chance of being popular than mixing unpopular things.
Crossovers inherently share car platforms, that doesn’t make them cars.
Really? You don’t understand how people see the value proposition of the Maverick? A combination crossover/pickup (basically the two most popular types of vehicles right now) with a base MSRP similar to a Corolla or Civic all while being a hybrid (with actual hybrid fuel economy!)?
The Maverick is an insane value.
Really.
It’s cheaply built from a company not known for quality, it’s worse at being a crossover than other crossovers, it’s worse than being a truck than other trucks, and IMO better vehicles aren’t too much of a step up in price.
I didn’t necessarily expect it to flop, but the fact that it’s a big sales success and seems to carry a 100% approval rating on the Internet remain somewhat surprising to me.
It’s really not any worse than a crossover or truck for most use cases. Yes if you actually need truck capacity then it’s not great. But for simple homeowner hauling it’s good enough. If you are constantly carrying around passengers and need locked/covered space it’s worse than a crossover. But it easily works in things like grocery runs (and tonneau covers can mitigate that further).
Yes, it’s materials quality are on the cheaper size from a company with some questionable quality…but it’s also one of the cheapest new cars out there (if you can get one at MSRP) while providing a lot of flexibility and good gas mileage. That makes people overlook things like flimsier materials.
It is actually better at being a pickup than many of the other pickups on the market because you don’t have to lift things so damn high to get them in the bed and you can actually pickup something off the bed floor over the rail or gate with your feet flat on the ground. Yeah the bed is smaller than a lot of pickups but not that much than the average 1/2 ton and their 5.5′ bed.
I’m seriously considering one myself and if a AWD Hybrid becomes available will probably buy one. It could replace my daily driver Hybrid sedan and my 1/2 ton 4×4. The 3/4 ton 4×4 isn’t going anywhere though.
Well said Matt:
Reading between your lines, I sensed that you were on the cusp of Argument (7) which pointed to the age-old reptilian portion of our brains that psychologists call the “I wanna” lobe.
No force in nature is stronger than this, it’s advertisers’ Nirvana, “I wanna buy it because…”
Some have this for a particular car and others for particular shoes saying…”but I don’t have matching BLUE pumps”
100% Doctor.
People like sitting up higher than sedan level because it’s easier to get in and out.
If you don’t think that’s so wait until you’re older. You will.
The other big one is loading kids into car seats at a comfortable height instead of stooping over.
It’s not surprising that DT doesn’t see a lot of value in crossovers as a young, childless person; I remember feeling the same way when I was one of those. Just always remember that low center of gravity and handling prowess are even weirder preferences that are shared by approximately 2% of the car buying public.
For the first almost five years of my kid’s life so far, I drove a Pontiac G6 while my wife drove a Hyundai Tucson. Loading the kid into the car was far easier in my wife’s car. Now, I drive a midsize crossover and wish I would have made the switch years ago. I don’t miss buckling a car seat by feel because I don’t want to bend over to see what I’m doing.
It’s funny though, that the car seat argument comes up so often in favour of crossovers, and yet sliding doors are still a mark of death, in spite of helping out access even more.
Yes, and that’s why I own a Sienna myself, and not a crossover. A better device for hauling children and their stuff has never been invented to my knowledge.
Hell, just the ability of the little ones to open and close the doors themselves is valuable, to say nothing of the space argument.
I had a rental Pacifica for several months last year for work testing, I gotta say it basically sold me on the minivan with kids. That thing was glorious.
04 Odyssey owner here. Gas mileage is bad but the utility is fantastic. Comfortable seating for seven now, lockable rain proof pickup truck ten minutes later (4×8 sheets lie flat in the back, 10′ lumber between the front seats, longer if you have it out through the passenger side window [not lockable at that point] full loads of fire wood mulch etc.) Since both of the kids are off to college now it gets less abuse than it used to so I’ll keep it around for when we need to haul a bunch of people or stuff around and let it rest in between.
What is considered bad gas mileage? Is it because it’s a van, or because it’s nearly 20 years old?
Can’t speak for the Odyssey, but my wife’s ’20 Sienna gets low 20s in mixed driving and peaks at about 25 mpg on highway trips. Not exactly a Prius but pretty good for the capability offered.
Sounds similar-ish to my ’18 Outback, but at least you get more than 185hp
Just popped into my head that a minivan based pickup would be awesome. I’m not exactly sure what would make it better than the Maverick, but I’m picturing some vehicle that doesn’t follow the laws of physics. It somehow seats 8, is low to the ground, has a bed, sliding doors, and isn’t any larger than a Odyssey.
Sounds like you want a Ridgeline limo… with a blackhole in the middle to keep dimensions
I just told my friend and his wife that I can’t wait to get a minivan for my next car. They looked at me like I had 3 eyes. Low load hight, totally flat bottom with seats stowed, sliding power doors, these things are amazing on so many levels. They insist they need their Durango instead, vanity has its price I guess.
For me it’s not vanity about how others see me. I’m a fat guy who rides a scooter for shits sake. I’ve always hated minivans, because they’ve always been so ugly for ME to look at. I don’t want to pay money for something I hate looking at.
The new Kia Carnival though, that’s a bit of alright. Its definitely in the running when its time to buy a new family hauler. I don’t buy cars very often though, so that may still be a while.
I just took two loads of construction debris to the dump in my Odyssey. A minivan with second row delete is awesome.
I love me some minivan. My favorite being my late great 95 Safari.
Minivans are a parenting cheat code.
I agree, although lately I’ve started to question whether we need to retire the habit of referring to them as “mini” vans. As this site just pointed out, the Transit Connect is going away, and most vans sold anymore are full-size vans.
I compared the measurements, and my 2022 Odyssey has pretty close to the same exterior dimensions as the 1980 GMC Vandura that my mom shuttled my siblings and me around in when we were kids.
Today’s vans might seem smaller, because the evolution of safety standards has shrunk the useable interior space relative to the exterior, but in terms of actual footprint in your driveway or garage, modern Siennas, Odyssseys, and Pacificas are pretty much the same size as the big-ass vans our parents drove back in the day before “minivans” were a thing.
I desperately wish that someone, anyone, would finally sell a well-appointed smaller minivan in this country. I want a minivan so bad (two kids, one with special needs), but a modern minivan would not fit in my tiny urban garage, and I mean that literally. Minivans today are *really* big.
I think the ideal size for me would be something along the lines of the final-generation Mazda MPV, or maybe the first-generation Toyota Sienna.
(And “well-appointed” eliminates the Transit Connect, ProMaster City, and Metris from consideration.)
We had a MPV for that very reason. Even then it was smaller than a Siennassey. Fun vehicle, I miss it!
We have an Outback and an Escape… I look longingly at Kia Carnivals just for the sliding doors…
This is also an excellent point. David does not have children other than his car children.
Car children are far cheaper than human children, even if your car children’s names are Bugatti and Koenigsegg.
In Houston people like to sit up higher so they can still get home when the streets are underwater.
Yeah, David’s “In my eyes, if [crossovers] aren’t good off-road, they compromise too much for ground clearance/a high H-point that nobody needs” was a bit myopic.
“Nobody needs” a high H-point?!? Tell that to my goddamn knees…and back… (I’m not old, I just broke down right after the warranty expired.)
Yeah lots of people appreciate the easier entry into something with that H point height right in the range of most small crossovers. The sedans that are left are too low, proper SUVs, mid and full size pickups are too high.
The few extra inches of height on our ’01 Forester -we still have it- was noticeable at first, but adapted to quickly and 22 years later is appreciated. My original commute began with a winding 8 mile downhill run to a riverside road, also winding. The first and only modification done to the car was a larger rear sway bar and the car never got out of shape. Leaving late some mornings it was given every excuse to do so. My TMI point is a tall-ish CUV can be made less of a hog-on-ice with little expense or work. After all the above, once the Faithful Forester crosses that vague line of too expensive to repair the base Maverick tops the list. I do need a proper aftermarket canopy though. Another wish list entry.
For me the butter zone is five feet even, tall-hatchback territory. Any taller and you start getting into SUV tip warnings on the sunvisor and having to stand on the rocker panels to wash the roof, but it’s tall enough you don’t need to enter butt-first.
Who gives a crap about SUV tip warnings on the visor? Those are like the warnings on the hair dryer cord not to use it while you’re in the bathtub. I guess if you’re an idiot, you need them, but then you won’t read them anyhow.
I’m 6′ 2″ tall and 51 years old, and I have no trouble getting in and out of anything, including a Fiat X1/9. Okay, once I’m actually in the X1/9 my knees are sticking out akimbo, but any trouble there is about legroom, not seat height.
Some people absolutely do have mobility issues, whether age-related or not. That doesn’t account for the legions of “I-just-need-something-to-go-from-A-to-B” people of all ages who’d rather have a CR-V than a BRZ. People who don’t understand center of gravity just like sitting up high, I guess.
I’m 6’2″ and 70 years old. When I was 51 I, too, had no problem with sedan height vehicles.
As for center of gravity, how is that an issue driving in city traffic?
Now if I were flinging my vehicle through roundabouts or mountain twisties I would agree. But I don’t.
1. I sold my 2016 Outback this year and bought a 2016 Nissan Frontier crew cab 4×4. Very glad I did, but I don’t drive the truck unless I’m adventuring or going to the landfill, so I don’t remotely care about gas mileage. It’s so much more fun to camp with a truck.
2. I’m sure you have your reasons, but 5 stoplights can’t be that far. Why not get an e-cargo bike? I ride both my kids to school on one. I drive our RAV4 family rig maybe once a week.
I live in the far suburbs of a major metro area. When my kid was in daycare, I went through two stoplights and five stop signs, but it was an 18 mile trip each way. Could be a similar situation here.
2. Texas gets very hot. Choosing air conditioning will always make sense.
So he needs a Changli.
As always it depends. I prefer not to have AC in my car, though I also prefer properly designed cars that do not need AC because they got enough ram air and ventilation.
Sadly basically all new cars do not meet those specs.
There’s no such thing as proper ventilation when it’s 110 degrees out. It just means you’re getting hot air blown at you. Hell, convection ovens heat even better than regular ovens.
Your assessment is precisely correct, according to my experience, having lived in Houston myself. If your home is in the Midwest or upstate NY, it may be possible. Texas though, especially the humid Piney Woods area, you better have air if you don’t want to kill family and pets. All it takes is minutes.
Hell yes there is such thing as proper ventilation in a car when it’s 110 degrees out.
Take a car you like that isn’t properly ventilated but has AC. Now don’t use the AC to simulate a failure in your AC system. You’d be begging to drive a properly ventilated car that doesn’t have AC after that.
AC is great until it fails, then you’re usually left with a poorly ventilated automobile that turns into a oven in no time.
In hot weather I wear sandals, light well ventilated synthetic pants or a synthetic kilt, light well ventilated synthetic underwear, light well ventilated synthetic shirts, and usually a light well ventilated hat.
I think the one thing most cars lack (including well ventilated ones) that would drastically help keep the occupants cooler are synthetic mesh seats.
I replaced my old leather Lazy Boy recliner with a mesh seat and I’m remarkably cooler. Even in my truck with the A/C going I find my back and butt still get sweaty on hot days due to the lack of ventilation. Mesh would solve that.
“Hell yes there is such thing as proper ventilation in a car when it’s 110 degrees out.”
It’s still 110, fuck that. I had a Wrangler, hot is hot. I don’t care if it could be even worse. Give me AC.
“AC is great until it fails,”
What year do you think it is? How often is this a problem for something remotely modern?
“In hot weather I wear sandals, light well ventilated synthetic pants or a synthetic kilt, light well ventilated synthetic underwear, light well ventilated synthetic shirts, and usually a light well ventilated hat.”
I wear shorts and use the AC, because it’s hot out.
I was certain you would make a comment about the kilt. Who wears a kilt on this continent? (My apologies if your profession includes a bagpipe)
Someone who likes airflow…
“Who wears a kilt on this continent?”
Commandos.
https://www.healthline.com/health/going-commando-men
You’d be surprised! There are quite a lot of us – still a small percentage, but a rather sizeable number. Very damn comfy, and quite convenient when nature calls.
That’s why I avoid going out when it’s hot enough to kill people, do what even the dumbest of dumb animals have figured out and find a cool shady spot to stay at till it cools down. If I have to go out when it’s hot out I wear clothing that would be the most comfortable if I didn’t have AC in my automobile, because eventually I’ll have to get out of said automobile and I want to be comfortable when I am in a situation without AC.
Now if you got a camper van I think AC makes a ton of sense, but if you have a house stay in the house with an AC unit and all of your creature comforts.
How often? Surprisingly often. Now instead of being able to rely on forced air cooling via the car moving you’re stuck relying on a fan that hardly pushes out enough air too cool you and a modern car that doesn’t have nice features like adjustable quarter windows and such. I don’t recommend people drive through Death Valley either, but it seems like you’re the type of person who says:
‘F it, I got AC in my car and it’s a new car so why even bring a bottle of water? My car won’t ever have any mechanical failure whatsoever so I’ll just drive through there no worries. I don’t have a full tank? Who cares? EPA MPG rating says I’ll get there with a few miles to spare so I’m not getting any gas! I got a meeting when I get to my destination so I’m going to wear a wool suit and crank up the AC, I don’t need clothes for the weather I control the weather!’
Except of course mad dogs and Englishmen.
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/mad-dogs-and-englishmen.html
“Even in my truck with the A/C going I find my back and butt still get sweaty on hot days due to the lack of ventilation. Mesh would solve that.”
Cooled/ventilated seats are a wonderful invention.
They are but I’m thinking thinner mesh and passive ventilation. It works great for me.
I had no A/C when I lived in Dallas through high school. Then I moved to Atlanta and also had no A/C in my car (since it was the same one) and was 10x more miserable than I was in Dallas.
I now have a car with A/C (still in Atlanta), and rarely use it because I’m weird and like having the windows down too much.
Yeah, I’m talking about an e-bike here. My long-tail cargo bike can carry two kids and two bags of groceries, or whatever, for miles without me breaking a sweat.
If it’s over 100, especially with humidity, there’s no minimal amount of effort where I’m not breaking a sweat.
A e-cargo bike is fuckin’ expensive. I want one cuz they are cool, but the price of one pays for a lot of gas. And then storing the damn things is hard too.
You can get ’em used for a couple grand. The Rad Powerbike is like $2k brand new. It’s not just about the gas savings either. Life is more enjoyable on a bike than in a car.
Yeah, and a couple grand is expensive for a secondary mode of transportation. Now what about people with 3rd floor walk up apartments and all that?
It also depends on how bike friendly where you live. While I would certainly ride more on a ecargo bike than I ride my current bike, I still wouldn’t ride most of the winter (about 3-4 months long where I live), and I’d quickly get out of reasonable range of one (30+ mile trips happen several times a week for me)
And again, $2k pays for a lot of gas… about 15,000 miles worth at 30mpg and $4.00/gal
I’m all for bikes and increase bicycle infrastructure, but at $2k I’d look at getting a larger scooter as that would be more usable for myself.
I agree. My old ’80 Kawasaki 250 street bike used to get 80 mpg and was fun as Hell to ride. I’m sure a modern small displacement scooter or motorcycle could serve your non wintertime long distance needs even better than an ebike.
(Of course you could also have a regular bike for short, light errands and to help promote bike use.)
I bike as a hobby. I enjoy it. I can’t imagine wanting to commute daily on my bike though. An e-bike, maybe, but for what they sell for I’d rather have a used small displacement motorcycle. Heck, I’d even rather commute on my minibike, like Dumb and Dumber.
Yeah, I’m talking about an e-bike here. My long-tail cargo bike can carry two kids and two bags of groceries, or whatever, for miles without me breaking a sweat.
I can’t imagine *not* commuting on my bike 🙂 I don’t do it every day, because I have an obnoxious commute now (15 miles from the north side of Chicago to the south side, then back, and it’s not very exciting riding), even the CTA is faster and driving, while sucky, is a lot faster. I badly miss my days of a 5-mile commute when I never, ever drove to work.
I really like the Maverick and I, too, am holding out hopes for a PHEV by the time I’m ready for a new vehicle. I drive a 2015 Genesis and plan on keeping it for another two years at least.
It’s been a great car and I commute 70 miles a day, so in no hurry to replace it since it’s still in great shape and gets decent mileage while being a very comfortable ride. But, I DO want a small truck for my next vehicle.
A PHEV Maverick would be amazing.
Argument 7: You live in Texas and are legally obligated to own at least one pickup.
except this pickup is a bit like a Ridgeline, it would not pass the truck gang muster. it is really more of a modern day ranchero. I ain’t mad at it though, just Ford for not QC’ing the engines resulting in oil leaks and fires.
I have to agree and argue this.
That hard core heavy duty will scoff but other truckers will nod in approval.
Ford has always followed the philosophy that unexplained fires are a matter for the courts.
The Ranchero is a perfectly acceptable Texas truck. Or at least it was while I was growing up in San Antonio in the 70’s. My dad had a succession of three Rancheros, including one of the extra-awesome 68(or 69?) GTs with the 428 Cobra Jet. Ford just needs a Maverick Raptor to silence any doubters.
I suspect the Ford badge will get it some leeway with the “not a real truck” crowd as well.
Not anymore! When I did, yeah, absolutely.
My mom’s lease on her ’20 Fusion (her 6th Fusion) was up, and this really was our (my brother and I) number one choice for a replacement, if she chose to continue leasing – FWD Hybrid XLT with the Luxury Package and a tonneau cover would be damn near the same price as her Fusion, and actually have more features.
In the end, she chose to buy her Fusion lease out, mainly because of the major availability issues of getting anything new right now.
That makes sense. Honestly, all of us were dumb (most of us) for not just immediately putting a deposit down on a base Maverick when the opportunity was offered.
These are pretty much the same reasons I had. And I had an order all lined out. But I backed out in hope of an AWD PHEV or at least AWD HEV, just like you are talking about. In my opinion, AWD PHEV Maverick would be virtually perfect for pretty much any use scenario I have. The only minor downside is the tradeoff of exposing the cargo area to the elements, but there are plenty of ways to protect cargo and an open bed gives more flexibility than the back of a crossover.
I’m holding out hope for an AWD hybrid. I want a hybrid XLT in Cyber Orange. Now that you mention it though a PHEV Maverick would be so damn appealing. If it existed and its range was in line with a RAV4 Prime I’d put down a deposit right now even if I had to wait a year and a half to get one.
That would be ideal, but I would settle for about 30 miles electric range. I’m still kicking myself for not pulling the trigger on the hybrid. The dealer was offering invoice price (not much savings, but great in a landscape of MSRP+), but I just felt like I would miss my all-electric commute.
I impulsively ordered a Sportage PHEV to get extra cargo space, AWD, and light towing (upgrading from a Niro). I am already sort of regretting it and I don’t even have a delivery date yet. I’d drop that order in a second if Ford announced even just an AWD HEV.
I’m holding out for much the same as all of you but also three pedals. I would compromise on the phev and do a ice awd version but I wouldn’t love it. I know it will never happen though as my desire is far too niche.
“Every route to my daughter’s school or my wife’s work requires meeting, at minimum, five stoplights or stop signs. In reality, there are often more stops. It’s a punishing trip and it means we are lucky to touch 21 mpg regularly.”
Five stops is a punishing trip?
Dude, I counted, I go through about 40 stoplights on my commute to work. And several stop signs as well.
If this is the kind of driving you’re doing, I doubt you’re buying gas more often than every 3-4 weeks.
What he seems to be saying is that he does exactly the sort of driving a hybrid is best at. If he is stopping and going a lot in a short distance, a PHEV is perfect, in that he would use no gas and recapture energy with stops. A regular hybrid would recapture energy, though there is some gas usage.
If you are going through that many stops on your way to work, a hybrid would probably be of use to you, too.
It’s a punishing type of driving not in length, but in stopping and starting per distance traveled, I assume.
I agree, but it seems like he’s driving less that 100 miles a week. At that low level of usage, even a Wagoneer’s putrid MPG wouldn’t bust anyone’s bank.
I fill an 18 gallon tank every 4.5 working days, so yeah, I know. But if I dropped 30k on a hybrid, I’d never see that money back because I paid $3,150 for my car.
His math is based on about 115 miles local a week, plus an unknown number of miles per year beyond that. He is also factoring in the utility and the fact that he would enjoy it more. Given those factors, I think he is being as thoughtful as any car enthusiast is going to be.
Heck, his analysis makes more sense than my considerations. My Niro does most of what I need and gets better gas mileage than the Maverick. I don’t camp enough to worry about the utility there, nor am I moving things all that often. But I don’t enjoy the anemic 139 hp and I move larger items just often enough to get annoyed once in awhile. And I don’t have room for multiple vehicles, so I want something that will cover a wide array of potential needs.
You’re on an automotive enthusiast site. Not every decision is going to be made for purely rational economic reasons.
Well, yeah, that’s what I’m saying… at 115 miles a week, fuel costs become moot.
Except they don’t. Especially when added to an unspecified number of miles beyond his local miles estimate. He’s talking about trading the Forester in for another Forester or for a Maverick. If we assume he makes up the difference in MSRP in accessories, he’s still going to save money by going to the Maverick. It might not be enough savings for your taste, but it is a nonzero amount. Beyond that, he would get more utility and more enjoyment from it.
And, again, we don’t make choices based entirely on rational economic considerations. If he wants it because he just wants it, that is worth something to him, even if it isn’t expressed as a particular dollar value.
That would be our BEST day if everything went perfectly to plan, in reality it’s more like 11-13, then work, then back, so I should clarify that a round trip is like 35 stops over 8 miles. I live near a downtown and cross it multiple times so it’s a huge pain.
Not to discount your analysis, which makes a lot of sense, but let me add another voice to the chorus of 8 mile round trip is just about perfect for an e-cargo bike. A long tail or a bucket style holds a lot of stuff, more traditional ones can be had cheaper
“I go through about 40 stoplights on my commute to work.”
I’ve got bad news for you: That’s not a commute, that’s hell. 😛