Here we are in our second week of Shitbox Showdown, and to start off with a bang it’s time for you to make the impossible ~$2000 choice between an automatic Peugeot 505 diesel and a manual Saab 900 Turbo convertible.
First, I want to thank all of you for the votes, replies, encouragement, and yes, even criticism. We’re still working out the kinks with this series of articles, but I’m having a blast, and I hope you all are as well. Readers have asked for more basic data on the actual cars, so I’m going to make a slight format change. At the top of each listing, before I get into the nitty-gritty, I’ll include some important information: year make and model, engine/drivetrain type, location, and whether it runs and/or drives.
Now, about that last one: I’ve bought enough cheap old cars to know that “runs and drives” sometimes only means “is capable of altering its location to a small degree,” but since we’re not able to investigate these cars in person, we’ll have to take the sellers’ word for it. For our purposes, therefore, “runs and drives” means you can at least in theory limp it home.
We’ve got a pair of rare European beauties to check out today, but first let’s look at last week’s final vote:
And our Shitbox of the Week winner is… the Studebaker wagon! I’m not surprised the Stude won — not just because it’s in the same family as a vehicle named the Champ, but mostly because, well, just look at this glorious thing:
I am surprised the Crown Vic was so far behind the other three after blowing that Chevy Caprice cop car out of the water like it did, but anyway, let’s move on and get some breakfast.
French Toast – 1984 Peugeot 505 STI Turbodiesel – $2200
Engine/drivetrain: 2.3 liter turbodiesel inline 4, automatic, RWD
Location: Portland, OR
Runs/drives? Yes, but not registered or driven on the road for 18 years
Peugeot never got the respect it deserved in America. It didn’t have the prestige of Mercedes or the cool factor of BMW or the high-tech image of Audi, and Volvo had the “quirky professor” demographic sewn up. Poor Peugeot was relegated to also-ran status, until it gave up and left the U.S. market in 1991. Here’s a snippet from the New York Times piece Peugeot To Pull Out Of Market In the U.S.:
A Peugeot spokesman said the withdrawal had been prompted by the failure of the company’s 405 model sedan to gain a significant share of the U.S. market.
[…]
The spokesman blamed the competition between American and Japanese automakers in the U.S. market for the failure of the 405.
“The American market is depressed and in conflict between U.S. and Japanese producers, and all the European automakers are caught in the vise,” he said.
[…]
Stephen Reitman, automotive analyst at UBS-Phillips & Drew in London, said the 405’s pricing had been “high relative to other manufacturers.”
He also observed that Peugeot’s dealer network in the United States, after the very modest performance of the previous standard-bearer, the 505, had cooled on the Peugeot make.
“Peugeot was typically a fourth brand, behind a dealer’s other European or American makes,” he said.
“It was usually relegated to a small, dusty corner of the showroom.”
Peugeot’s departure was a shame, because the 505 (and its predecessor, the 504) is a really nice car. It’s not luxurious, but it is comfortable. It’s not sporty, but it holds the road well. And in other parts of the world, old Peugeots, especially diesels like this, are legendary for their durability and toughness. There are still plenty of forty-year-old Peugeot diesels trundling around Africa earning their keep, which shows that keeping one on the road isn’t something that takes a hundred men or more to do.
[Editor’s note: Mark has stumped me with almost every pop-culture reference he’s made since he started writing at The Autopian last week. But I just got the Toto reference there, and I just had to add this note to revel in it a bit. -DT]
This particular 505 isn’t in terrible shape, but it does need some help. It runs and drives well according to the seller, but it hasn’t been registered since 2004, so you’d need to go over it before putting it back into service.
Finding parts isn’t easy, but the seller seems to be a “Peugeot guy” (he has another 505 for sale for $3,500) so maybe he can help. The outside looks a little ratty, with square patches of black primer, but I don’t see any rust. And the blue leather interior looks clean and inviting.
This car has been for sale for a while; I’ve seen this ad pop up several times over the past few years. Maybe it’s because it’s an automatic, or a diesel, or just a Peugeot, but it hasn’t found the home it deserves yet.
Swedish Pancakes – 1990 Saab 900 Turbo convertible – $2000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.0 liter turbo inline-4, 5 speed manual, FWD
Location: Bend, OR
Runs/drives? Yes, but bring a bungee cord for the hood
Good old Saab. Born from jets, murdered by bad business deals. Their cars were chock-full of odd-but-brilliant engineering and unconventional ideas that made sense if you just kept an open mind (You can’t remove the key unless the manual gear shift is in reverse — annoying? Maybe. But kind of makes sense!). Saab was the weird kid in study hall, over in the corner creating fantastic new worlds that no one else really understood.
Then in 1989, right around the same time that Bob Rock first produced a Metallica album, General Motors started absorbing the Swedish car brand. Like the previous musical reference that I know for sure my editor didn’t understand [Editor’s note: True. -DT], results weren’t optimal: the name was the same, but the feel was totally different, and that “outsider” quality that made them what they were was almost completely lost. GM-era Saabs were neither as interesting nor as well-made as their Saab-Scania predecessors.
This Saab 900 predates the GM years in terms of design; it’s the old “Classic” 900 design, with a backwards-facing four-cylinder engine (yes, the clutch is up front!) sitting right on top of the front axle. That engine is turbocharged and powers a five-speed manual that the seller says is “hard to get into reverse.” This should probably be addressed sooner rather than later, because as I mentioned before, you have to shift into reverse when you shut the car off to release the key from the center-console-mounted ignition switch.
The seller says the car “runs and drives great,” but the 2008 tags and the cooling fan and other unidentifiable bits in the trunk give me pause. You’ll also need to find a replacement hood latch, because the original is – I can’t resist – bork-bork-borked. [Editor’s note: Once again…no clue. -DT].
There they are, our Monday morning breakfast treats. A Swedish pancake and French toast, both deserving of a second chance. Which one is right for you?
The Saab is nice but I’m one of those weirdos who prefers the Peugeot’s look. The only hurdle for me would be transporting it to the east coast and sourcing parts.
Much like a white convertible VW rabbit will always be negatively associated in my mind with a very specific demographic, this iteration of SAAB (SnAAB) also suffers from negative associations (a string of bad bosses at a former company; like they got a discount for ordering in bulk)…so not knowing anything about the car, I’m going Peugeot
It figures that the Peugeot is in Portland, an outpost of weird that supports a Citroën specialist. On the plus side Oregon doesn’t use road salt so rust shouldn’t be a problem on the other hand it’s a diesel automatic sedan and on the gripping hand all those years parked in Portland could cause mold issues. (who gets this reference)
I was even more surprised that option 2 was local to me, convertible and manual. Bend is high desert so UV is an issue but no rust or mold concerns.
Oh dear… where’s the ‘neither, run away screaming from both’ option? As much as I love the *idea* of the convertible 900 turbo, the reality of owning one of those things was a different matter, even new. My uncle had a couple Saab 900’s in a row back in the late 80’s, and he would always say “do you know how to spell Saab? S-O-B.” They were *always* broken down.
The Renault is perhaps appealing in the ‘dare to be different’ sense, but parts will be 100% unobtanium, and even if you get it all together perfectly… it’s a reasonably unremarkable car powered by a wheezy 80’s diesel through a slushbox. Also, weren’t Renaults of this era known for oddball mechanical failures, like broken cranks? Yeah, I’ll pass.
Forced to choose at gunpoint? The Saab, I guess. If you managed to get through the pain and suffering to get it to work, you’ll at least enjoy the experience of driving it, for as long as it runs.
Saab. I drove that exact model ragtop once and it was fast. The car belonged to my sister who got it as a surprise present (yes the whole bow on top thing) from her sociopath spouse who had been doing a year in prison for some white collar crime and not captaining boats around the Caribbean as his cover story went. It got repossessed which was a factor that lead to a divorce where she discovered the Saab was an act of contrition not love. This Saab is actually in Powell Butte 25 miles north of Bend and in the high desert so likely rust-free. Only 111K miles too. Very tempting. Bring a bungie, fix it and flip it on BaT. Or just drive it and leave the key in it. Nobody will steal a manual. Nor would they think to look for the ignition switch between the seats. Just cover it with a surgical mask when you get out.
I’m honestly a bit surprised that the Peugeot is getting stomped as hard as it is here. Maybe I’m just a bad car enthusiast but convertibles just don’t do it for me and the Saab being manual isn’t enough to pull me away from the Peugeot. It might be a different story if the Saab was a hardtop though.
I have to go with the Saab. I had a classmate who had one that he needed to short across the starter solenoid to start. he almost ran over his foot once showing us the production he went through to start it every time.
I wanted to go with the Pug. I’ve got fond memories of my dad’s 309, my own 205 that I got for free, fixed in an evening and drove for 2 years, and all the other French claptraps I’ve driven and owned over the years. But a Saab with a stick beats a French automatic any day of the week.
The interior on that Pug looks shockingly good for something that’s been sitting since Bush 43’s first term, and with an exterior that looks like that
I think it must have had a deep cleaning before the seller photographed it. In Seattle, those seats & steering wheel (hell, probably most of the plastic surfaces, too) would be coated in mildew if it’s truly been sitting for even a fraction of that time. Portland’s climate isn’t that much different.
Saab for me simply because I know how to fix them Frenchy would be like learning a whole new language. The reverse thing shouldn’t be more than an adjustment. If it were popping out, that would be a bigger fix, but 5th and reverse tend to get hard to find and it’s a very easy tweak. I’ve actually seen that C900 on CL for a few weeks, now which makes me think that there might be more wrong, but it’s a good price if all is as stated in the ad.
I was not much of a fan of the 505’s looks when they were new, but they have really grown on me. Now, the TDi, well, I got to drive one (a wagon, no less) a few years ago. I have to say, you probably actually want the automatic. That motor will have you shifting four times before you actually get out of the driveway. And despite diesel torque, it does not have enough to just pull away in 2nd, or 3rd. This is one of the few cars I definitely did not like with a manual transmission. On the other hand, for a 30-ish year old car, when I drove it I was impressed at how well it was still holding up. It was quite a tank, much like Mercedes cars from the same era. Even the copious rust didn’t seem to have ruined it.
The Pug could’ve at least used gray duct tape instead of black :p
I don’t want either of these cars. Am I allowed to abstain?
But as bad as these two cars are, the worst abomination (to my eyes) on this page is that 3D pie chart at the top. 3D pie charts distort information and make results less clear. Because of the distortion brought on by the 3D effect, the slice for the Scirocco appears bigger than for the Lark, even thought they’re actually almost exactly the same size (the Lark just a tiny bit bigger). A regular (2D) pie chart would be an improvement, or a bar chart might be even better. I’d also suggest labeling the actual slices instead of having a legend to make it easier for the reader to understand the story the data are telling.
Saab. Bork-bork-borked or not.
Side note: I’ve been watching the original Muppet Show on Disney+, and it is just as glorious as I remember from my childhood!
Peugeot in a New York minute, which is an odd thing to say since I live in Independence Kansas in the Southeast corner of the state and quite a ways from Sterling, KS.
I guess I’d rather have the convertible.
The Saab, those looks alone deserve to be remembered forever.
I always like a good French car, but for my money, I’d rather have something truly madcap like a Citroen or something quick and agile like an Alpine or a classic hot hatch. Speaking of hot hatches, I’ve always had a soft spot for a classic SAAB. This 900 is priced fairly, has a turbo and the manual, and its a convertible. For 2 grand, the SAAB seems the better deal.
Another “neither”. But my dad had a Saab, so we’ll go Swedish….
Always go French. Those Peugeots are magnificently comfortable cruisers and fixing them isn’t as hard as you’d think.
Eh. If I can outrun it in a VW bus, I’m not sure I’ve got the patience to drive it, regardless of just how comfortable it is.
I absolutely adore Peugeots. One of the first cars I ever drove was a Purple 504. I was well under the legal driving age, but that didn’t seem to bother the owner–she was an interesting lady. She gave me a purple Peugeot bike so I could have me own purple Peugeot. There was a Peugeot dealership near where I lived and I would often go there (on my purple Peugeot) to check out the cars, pick up brochures, etc. They also sold Subarus, and had a 360 in the showroom–I think a lot of weird quirky tastes in cars come from that place. If that Peugeot wasn’t in the other Portland I would seriously consider buying it.
Anyhow, I voted for the Saab.
This was a tough one. I have a real soft spot for the looks of the 505 and there’s a very real hipster appeal to the diesel aspect.
However, how do you turn down a turbo Saab convertible in manual? The answer is, you don’t. I do have more trepidations about the condition of the Saab, though, which is part of what made the decision more difficult.
The SAAB, hands down. Besides, you don’t need to remove the key, nobody can drive a stick any more and when you have a ragtop you don’t bother locking the doors.
My first car was a Saab 900 turbo with a stick- it was an absolute blast to drive, and a truly under-appreciated car. This one’s easy for me.
My mom and dad bought one of those Peugeot 505 STI turbodiesels just like that one new in 1984. Only, it was this sort of beige-champagne color on the outside, with tan leather inside. For the first few years, they loved it, and used it to take long interstate trips a lot. Then, as will happen with Peugeots, they had to repair things. It was then, that visits to their house started becoming like an octogenarian describing what bodily parts don’t function right, only with a car.
My mother eventually insisted that they get something else. The parts and labor to keep it happy were just too much. And my father, showing serial bad judgement, replaced it with an Explorer.
They finally learned their lesson and just bought a Lexus, so they would be able to talk about things other than car problems.
Yeah, I had to go for the Saab, love of old Peugeot’s notwithstanding. However: As a lucky person in cheap second hand car-land (the UK), these prices a terrifying. You can get a perfectly nice Lexus is220 for about 2 grand here, or 3 grand if you want a stick shift is250. Paying 2k for a clunker like these is a disturbing thought.