Happy Thursday, everyone! Today we’ve got a couple of cars that I guarantee no one anywhere has ever cross-shopped before… until now. But first let’s check in on our two old diesel tanks that we cross-shopped yesterday:
Yep, that’s what I think, too.If I were shopping for an old diesel Mercedes, I think I’d favor a 4-speed manual 240D over either of these, but those are getting really hard to find. So an S-Class will have to do. [Editor’s note: I have always had incredible respect for the “SDL” Mercedes Benz. The S-Class Diesel Long wheelbase. It’s everything I could ever want in a luxury car: It’s cheap, comfortable, and reliable. The dream. -DT]
We’ve been showcasing a lot of similar cars, or cars that at least have some tie that binds, but today I wanted to mix it up and feature two cars that have nothing in common except for wheel count, so I found us a really odd couple. (Those of a certain age have some distinctive bouncy theme music going through their heads now, I bet). These two cars are meant for completely different purposes, marketed to completely different demographics, and barely have any business being in the same parking lot, but together they form a sort of personality test: How risk-averse are you?
Given a little over two grand and a need for transportation, would you play it safe or go for broke? Do you take a chance on a beautiful, high-strung, fundamentally flawed sports car icon that could eat away at your soul one massive repair bill at a time, or would you rather have the little-old-lady-only-drove-it-to-church-mobile, even if it bores you to sleep? Is it, in short, better to burn out than to fade away?
1990 Chrysler New Yorker – $2,200
Engine/drivetrain: 3.3 liter V6, 4 speed automatic, FWD
Location: Duvall, WA
Odometer reading: 136,000 miles
Runs/drives? Current daily driver
Looking at this thirteenth-generation New Yorker, it’s hard to believe it was built in 1990. It wears the style of at least a decade earlier, with its padded landau roof, heavy chrome accents, deeply-tufted seats, and fake woodgrain, all of which were horribly out of fashion by the time Falcon Crest went off the air. Lincoln’s Taurus-based Continental looked like a spaceship by comparison, and even GM’s stodgy Buick Electra looked more modern. But this style still resonated with a certain demographic: One look at this car and you just knew you’d find a stick-on compass on the dash and a bag of Werther’s Originals in the glovebox.
These days, there’s something quaint and comforting about the Brougham era (basically, the era when automakers offered weirdly opulent cars with vinyl roofs and Landau Bars). for those of us who grew up around these cars; it’s like Thanksgiving dinner in car form, warm and comforting and predictable. And you can’t say there isn’t some appeal to that. It’s still deeply uncool, and the lackluster build quality is starting to show after so many decades, but it sure does look comfy in there.
This particular New Yorker is the “Mark Cross Edition,” which I think at one time came with matching luggage, or maybe that was just the LeBaron convertible. It does have those lovely cushy leather seats, and they look to be in fine shape. Under the hood is Chrysler’s own 3.3 liter pushrod V6, a nice smooth unassuming engine that does what it’s told while barely being noticed, like a mechanical butler. [Editor’s note: This is Chrysler’s “Minivan motor” that found its way into Chrysler products from 1989 all the way to 2011. The 2011 variant was a 3.8-liter, and it was highly underpowered for the Jeep Wrangler application and tended to burn oil. Good riddance. -DT] . The 4 speed “Ultradrive” transmission wasn’t as accommodating in all of these early-’90s Chrysler vehicles, but at 32 years old and 136,000 miles, it’s safe to assume this one has either been cared for properly or replaced. The fact that the seller is currently driving it daily speaks well of it, too.
And now for something completely different…
2004 Mazda RX-8 – $2,300
Engine/drivetrain: 1.3 liter 2 rotor Wankel rotary, 6 speed manual, RWD
Location: Ventura, CA
Odometer reading: 120,000 miles
Runs/drives? Runs fine but won’t pass CA smog
The Wankel engine was everyone’s darling in the 1970s, it seemed. GM was hard at work on developing the company’s own version, including a wild four-rotor that was supposed to power a mid-engine Corvette. AMC’s Pacer was originally slated to have a rotary engine. But only second-tier Japanese automaker Mazda really embraced the technology. In the early ’70s, rotaries were like Frank’s Redhot Sauce to Mazda: they put that shit in everything. Sporty coupes, family station wagons, even the B-series pickup were all available with a Wankel engine for a while.
After a while, Mazda figured out that a small, high-revving, lowish-torque engine was best suited to sports cars, so the company went back to conventional piston engines for everything else. But Mazda kept on developing the rotary, and created the stuff of legends through three genreations of the RX-7.
That car’s successor, the RX-8, came out with a new version of the famous engine, and brought with it a new slew of problems: leaking apex seals (the blades at the tips of the rotors that perform the same function as piston rings in a conventional engine) leading to loss of compression and therefore power and economy; a weak and finicky ignition system; and fouled catalytic converters, to name a few. These weren’t quality problems experienced by a few cars, like some other well-known “unreliable” cars; they were baked-in to the design. It wasn’t a matter of if these problems would occur, but when.
This particular RX-8 sounds like it is experiencing all those problems and maybe more. It runs and drives, according to the seller, but a failed smog test and difficulty starting the engine when hot doesn’t bode well. Plus, 120,000 miles is approaching old age for this engine. It may not be long for this world without an overhaul.
The rest of the car looks alright; the interior is clean and well-kept, and the body is straight. The paint on the plastic nose is more faded than the rest of the car, and the paint elsewhere is scratched up with swirl marks (black cars are impossible to keep looking good), but it’s presentable. There does seem to be a title issue that needs sorting out, and that’s in addition to the smog problems. That sort of paperwork trouble would scare me off, but some people don’t mind plunging into the heart of DMV darkness. And I guess if you’re brave enough to take this car on mechanically, a little title snafu isn’t going to faze you. Remember, this thing’s cheap; $2,300.
Two very different cars for two very different types of people. A solid, reliable, tidy Felix, or a fun but troublesome Oscar. Which member of our odd couple is right for you?
The RX8 is neither “beautiful” nor “iconic”.
Crack Pipe.
Yeah wrong site.
I really prefer the RX8 in every conceivable metric, but the abundance of red flags for that particular example is unavoidable. Guess I’m falling asleep at the wheel of a New Yorker…
That New Yorker even looks like it’s parked in front of my grandparents driveshed. Brings a tear. RIP Vic and Irene. The only question is – is the door ajar? NO! It’s a damn door!
After watching my parents deal with a New Yorker 20 years ago, I feel pretty confident that the RX-8 will be more reliable going forward. It’s a good thing the NY was a rolling couch, because they spent a lot of time lounging on the side of the highway in that thing.
Please sir put down the bong. I don’t know what happened with your parents NY but an RX8 was a beautiful POS from day 1. And even keeping up with the insane maintenance and proper usage, like let it warm up 10 minutes before driving, you are lucky to get 1 complete trip from a Wankle.
10 minute warm up? In what world. I daily drove one for over 3 years and never did that, once.
I once had a chat with a young guy who was looking to buy his first car. His budget would get him a seriously clapped out boy racer car or a tidy Grandpa car.
Needless to say he went with the Boy Racer Mobile and it was dead in less than 60 days.
In my case I had a reliable Honda Civic DX. Always wanted a 2 seater convertible so saw an MG at an used car lot. Mentioned to the salesman it would be my DD. He said you don’t want this car for a DD. Not all car salesmen are sleazy.
Aslife experience increases and testosterone declines destroys becomes a lot clearer and you end up with a drivable car.
This cements me as an Old, but Chrysler all the way. I put about a thousand miles on a similar era Dodge Dynasty in 2001 or so on a road trip, and it felt like driving a nap.
I’ve had multiple 90s-00s VWs and Audis, a 160,000 mile Mini Cooper, and a Cavalier that started with a light switch…but RX-8s scare me to death
You know what has a lot of room in the engine bay for when the engine goes :poof:?
The RX8.
Its basically a 4-seater (barely) Miata. Gimme
New Yorker but I’d have to buy an oversized suit and one of those early brick-sized cell phones. The Rx8 is neat but if I’m buying a car, I’d like to you know, use it.
RX-8 with the understanding it’s needing another $2k to get it running.
If you actually need it for transportation, the Chrysler will get you there. Boring yes but pretty reliable with that engine and as previously stated, the trans has been replaced so it’s a good unit with good seals in it that were most of the problems with them. As a former dealer tech, I’ve seen them hit 250k with minimal maintenance.
My next door had a New Yorker like this it went for an uneventful 400,000 km with structural rust spelling its final demise. Any easy choice for me, no way I’d touch that questionable Rx8 that California certified as a smoke bomb.
250k? Your customers weren’t driving, sir!
The grand champion is probably still the I think it was ’93 T&C that ended up being killed by electrical. Basically determined I’d have to replace every harness due to jacket degradation. Fix a dead short in the tail light, A/C fuse pops. Fix the short in the pressure switch, radio quits. You know the routine.
Never did find out what the owner did, but in about 14 years, they had racked up 380,000 miles. On the original block and transmission.
Most severe repair on the history prior to electrical was a bench overhaul of the 41TE (clutches and solenoid packs,) or the TCM due to leak.
It wasn’t super sporty. By any stretch of the imagination. But they were comfortable, got decent mileage, and ran for a long time.
Some of them also had a real kick ass Infiniti Soundsystem. Get a cassette adapter, and a holder for your iPhone, and you have a nice road trip sound track.
“for those of us who grew up around these cars; it’s like Thanksgiving dinner in car form, warm and comforting and predictable.”
Truer words have never been written.
That car is more like the frozen dinner version of Thanksgiving
Take the New Yorker and pretend you’re Mike from Breaking Bad
The RX-8 is $2k too high as I’m sure it needs a new engine.
But most of these get listed at $4-5k and need a new engine. I think there was an article on some “other” automotive website a couple years ago about how reliable these are if cared for properly, and the affordability of a rebuilt engine shipped to your door:
https://rotaryresurrection.com/8pricing1/
Some wrenching and $2,200 later you have yourself a fun sports car.
I have a strange affection for the New Yorker, the most grandpa car ever made. It’s not like, good, but it is charming and nostalgic in an extremely weird way.
On the other hand, that RX-8 has more red flags than a Chinese parade.
I have fond memories of my dad’s RX-8. I have a serious fond spot for all Mazdas, really, right up to my own Mazda3.
I also have memories of how often the RX-8 was in the shop. Worst car we ever had with regards to reliability. New Yawkah all the way.
Corbin Goodwin to the white courtesy phone… Corbin Goodwin to the white courtesy phone…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcjpXbMiCtg&t=3s
If you don’t have to deal with emissions inspection, get the RX8
Otherwise, the New Yorker.
Most states that have emissions testing exempt older cars like the New Yorker, so you’d be safe even in a state that has inspection. OTOH, the RX8 is way too new to qualify for that shit.
I look at it this way: they’re both due to shit the bed basically any time. Which would you rather put money into? The Mazda wins by that account.
The DynaFithYorker is a car to get you around until something breaks, then move on. I’m not doubting a true MOPAR fanatic would love it, but they’d probably rather have the LH version. I know I would. It’s redeeming quality is it isn’t white and gold.
As bonkers as it sounds, the New Yorker. You framed the question as “if you only had $2k for transportation” – I’d rather get there in the Chrysler than be let down by the Mazda.
Besides, I’m all about unique driving experiences, and while you can get a new car that gives you a driving experience reasonably similar to the RX8, there is no car currently on sale that will float you serenely down the road like that New Yorker.
Yeah if he had found a similar priced mgb or triumph or ideally a Jensen Healey screw New York and Yorkers, I want the project sports car. But a non running, non titled, rotary engine yeah screw that.
Can I take both?
Can I have some of what you are smoking?
Title issues = No way in hell. If the title issues were easy to sort out, the current owner would have done it already. I was about to click hard on the RX8, but that one line makes the decision easy.
The front overhang on that Chrysler is hilarious.
I’ll take the RX-8, and do an engine swap if it too far gone. Question about the title though. I lost my title to 2 cars. I called up the DMV and asked them for replacements and they sent me new ones for $20 each. Doesn’t CA do that? I mean the title is tied to the VIN, if you have the VIN they can find the title, right?
Likely the title belongs to someone else and this car is just getting passed along
Yeah like the real owner.
I am with you.
There is something genuinely wrong with me, but that RX8 excites me. I want that car. I want that car legitimately, mind you, so I’d wait for the titles, etc. While that was happening I’d be trying to figure out an engine swap.
But holy moly, that RX8 lights my ass on fire. The other car? I already forgot what it was.
The New Yorker is my choice. Had a friend who bought one and it a great cruiser.
For the price, it is a great deal and if I could stuff another car in the driveway without my wife noticing….
Fit in another car? With a New Yorker even a motorcycle won’t fit in most driveways
I already have a DTS and Crosstrek taking up most of the driveway. This might be noticed.
“What is the blue thing near the shed?”
“This is not the object you are looking for.”
“Serious, before I throw something at you, what is that?”
I’d only take the Chrysler over a bus ticket.
Rebuilding a rotary is the easiest rebuild you can ever hope for, and used rotaries are cheap. I’d just buy one, rebuild it in my garage (or pay someone to do it if you can’t be bothered), then swap’em out.
The hot start problem is a rotary trademark, so I’m not sure that’s a real issue (unlike the inability to pass smog).