Welcome back to Shitbox Showdown, where we fantasize financial burden. This should be the last Shitbox Showdown of the year, so I figure why not end 2022 with a bang and go way past both our typical price cap and the rational limits of reliability. First though, let’s see how our battle of sensible luxury cars from yesterday went.
Well, the Camry is a used car yardstick and since the ES300 is fundamentally a fancy Camry, it shouldn’t be surprising to see it take the win over the Legend.
Anyway, back to today’s focus: Cars that are known for expensive and sometimes spectacular problems along with an incredible amount of driving fun. Let’s see how far you want to ride the roller coaster of risk.
2001 Porsche Boxster: $10,900
Engine/drivetrain: 2.7-liter flat-six, five-speed manual gearbox, rear-wheel-drive.
Location: Santa Monica, California
Odometer reading: 103,288 miles
Runs/drives? Absolutely
With good 944s costing more and more these days, the first-generation 986 Boxster is starting to make more and more sense as a reasonably-priced sports car. It’s hard to find a fairly modern, budget-oriented mid-engined sports car that isn’t a Boxster or third-generation Toyota MR2, and that MR2 has virtually zero storage space. Coincidentally, both of those cars have a reputation for engine failure, albeit with very different causes.
Under the hood, this 986 Boxster seems to be exactly the sort of example you really want. Not only has the dreaded IMS bearing allegedly been replaced with an upgraded LN Engineering part roughly 10,000 miles ago, with the clutch and flywheel having been done at the same time.
Otherwise, oil changes have been frequent and the car doesn’t appear to be messed with. Sure, a 217-horsepower 2.7-liter flat-six isn’t the most potent engine in the world, but it’ll still whisk you along to 60 mph in a tad more than six seconds while making beautiful music.
On the outside, this sports car looks quite well-kept and also stock. Popular modifications such as a fried egg delete using later headlights and European side markers are absent, but the black paint looks to be in great shape, as does the cabriolet roof. Kudos to whoever kept this thing looking fresh.
However, this Boxster’s party piece might just be on the inside. It features the relatively rare full leather option which offers a marked improvement in materials over a base car.
Not only that, but the leather in question is an airy tan color and in pristine shape. In fact, the rest of the interior also looks to be in fairly good shape, with just an aftermarket radio and a broken cup holder affecting the otherwise showroom-ready vibe.
2004 Mazda RX-8 – $10,500
Engine/drivetrain: 1.3-liter two-rotor, six-speed manual gearbox, rear-wheel-drive.
Location: Santa Clarita, California
Odometer reading: 67,000 miles
Runs/drives? Indeed.
The Mazda RX-8 is one of those rare overlooked last-ever cars. It’s the last production car to drive the wheels using a rotary engine, the last four-seat coupe Mazda ever made, and the last sports coupe with rear suicide doors. It’s fantastic to drive, cheap, and comes with a smattering of apex seal jokes.
See, each rotor in the rotary engine uses apex seals to maintain compression and they wear out over time, eventually resulting in rebuild costs. Still, rotary engines are fantastic fun—when they’re working.
Under the hood of this RX-8 sits an early six-port RENESIS rotary engine cranking out 238 horsepower and 159 lb.-ft. of torque. Not huge numbers, but a sky-high redline makes working for the power feel so special. Add in a precise six-speed manual shifter and rear-wheel-drive, and you get a dose of driving nirvana. Mazda’s last go with a rotary engine was one of the best-handling cars of its day, and could probably tango with a lot of modern stuff in the corners and still hold its own.
The seller of this RX-8 claims to have receipts dating back to new, a huge plus for a car like this. You know what they say, buy it nice or buy it twice.
Upon first glance, it’s easy to tell that someone spent a lot of cash upgrading this RX-8 with Mazdaspeed bits. The fairly rare dealer-installed Mazdaspeed body kit has some damage to the front bumper but seems otherwise in good shape, while JDM-style clear side markers help clean up the look. Aftermarket Enkei RPF1 wheels are light and strong, while Tein coilovers help complete the stance. Proper Japanese speed bits for a proper Japanese performance car.
On the inside, this RX-8 is business as unusual with triangle motifs aplomb and reasonably-sized rear buckets for such a small, low-slung car. The upholstery looks to be in decent shape, with the cloth playing nice with the southern Californian sun. Overall, the cabin of this RX-8 looks to be a fairly good place to spend some miles.
So there we are: Two very fun sports cars with fearsome reputations. One has a piston engine known for failure, one has the often-dreaded rotary. While both seem to have been well-kept, it’s up to the next owner to continue taking proper care of these things. Which one would you rather maintain?
(Photo credits: Craigslist sellers)
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I’m an old school Porsche guy, but I just don’t get the insistent headlight hatred. They were on the early sketches and then the concept car, and I think they fit the car well. When I look at a Boxster I don’t see headlights, I just see a 550 Spyder.
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2021/history/porsche-boxster-25-years-sports-car-concept-23354.html
I actually prefer the fried egg look to the later monochrome version.
Right?
Took me a second to remember where I’d seen it, but it’s amusing that this video starts with Grant Larson talking about headlights 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcVYs7TdgLk
EDIT BUTTON
It’s not the color of the amber yolk that’s bad about Porsche fried egg headlight pods, it’s the overall shape of the pod and how poorly it’s integrated into the body compared to both earlier and later designs. Yellow surrounded by white/clear is just where the nickname came from.
The earlier lights on 911s and later ones on 911s and Boxsters and Caymans are shaped so much nicer that it makes the fried egg pods look cheap and crude. That’s not a look you want for your high-end sports car.
RX-8 for me…because I want a real roof.
Having owned a second generation RX7 in my youth, I was tempted by the RX8 but it’s just too watered down. That Porsche for 10K had already had the IMS taken care of. I wouldn’t worry about it at all.
I’m curious to hear you elaborate on this since I have never driven an RX7– have you driven an RX8? I’d be very curious to hear a comparison of the driving styles. Thanks
I’ve got both a 2nd gen RX7 (turbo-swapped convertible) and a facelifted RX8. Of course they fill a bit different roles… the turbo vert is considerably more torquey, faster in a straight line and is a lot of fun with the roof down.
The RX8 is a lot more grown up feeling than my 7 (although the 8 feels much more fun, light and lively than contemporary BMW 335s and Nissan 350s; great suspension, short gearing, 9k redline and a toddler nature all help a lot there). I think a lot of that has to do with the 8 being a much newer car than the 7 without the minor squeaks etc, some sound deadening, dampening and other NVH improvements, and the 8 doesn’t encourage outright hooliganism as much as the torquier turbo 7. Some of that is because I deliberately chose some better wearing, narrower tires for the 7 that also happen to step out more easily. If I was comparing to my FC with the top up, back when it was still NA though, the power deficit would be reversed and the top-down experience would be negated. In that case the FC would feel more raw in the way that most older cars do, which could be a positive or a negative, but the 8 provides fantastic steering and seat-of-the-pants feedback with incredible clarity, and the suspension geometry is much better in the 8.
Overall though, I’d say that the 8 feels very much like your expect a 20 year newer version of the FC to feel like, in the same way Mazda has preserved the character of the Miata. Things have been refined, honed, adjusted, and somehow they make to fit a usable pair of rear seats and doors in, but still very much the same lineage
RX8 for me as it has a higher novelty factor to me and is a bit more practical. And yeah, I’m fully aware that these require a lot of maintenance to keep them healthy.
I do love German cars and verts, but I’ve gotta take the rotary pain every time. Hurt me again mazda-chan!
Wow… it’s a rare day. Not only would I pick the Porsche over the Mazda, but I’d also probably consider buying this particular Porsche if I hadn’t already just bought a fun car.
Decent shape, work has been done, and it looks like a solid driver.
Yeah well not for the expected (username) reasons. I have a hidden obsession with the final RX-7. Like everything about that car is sex.
Having watched many of them end up in track runoffs (and a couple go into tire walls) at “high performance driving events” over the years, I could never bring myself to buy one…worshipped from afar if you will.
That said, I never saw the 8 as anything other than an absolute abomination. Even if it had finicky and expensive mechanicals, I could consider it if it was even close to as good looking as its forebear. But it’s not. It’s ugly, slow, and prone to suicide.
The price seems a bit high on the RX8 for a 2004 and the body kit isn’t my cup of tea, but it’s hard to beat them for a capable track car that can also work as a DD with kids. In fact, that’s exactly why I own a 2009. It drives like a giant Miata, is pretty easy on brakes and tires (at least during HPDEs), it just keeps on revving and is geared low enough to feel really quick, plus the back seat and suicide door access is doable for child seats even though I’m 6’2″. Granted, I bought mine before the used market went nuts, and rebuilt the engine myself about 1000 miles ago (now at 95k miles), but I’ve spent less overall than the asking price on either of these cars
I’ll take the Porsche, and do my best James Dean.
But, uh, maybe don’t do your worst James Deen, because that’s a pretty nice looking car.
“The seller of this RX-8 claims to have receipts dating back to new, a huge plus for a car like this. You know what they say, buy it nice or buy it twice.”
Hey guess what? My friend actually has receipts for his RX8 dating back to new, it’s the later ‘upgraded’ Renesis that supposedly fixed all the problems, and you know what?
It’s still a fucking grenade with the pin pulled.
No amount of ‘maintenance’ can fix a defective design, and that’s exactly what the Renesis always was and always will be. If you make it 75k before a total rebuild thanks to apex seals, you’re the exception, not the rule. And you won’t stay that way.
The Porsche 2.7 is deeply underwhelming to me, but once the IMS is done, it’s pretty bulletproof. (Disclaimer: I absolutely won’t consider Boxsters personally, only Caymans, but they’re just Boxsters with a roof.) Weight is in it’s favor, but it’s only 217HP, and trying to unleash anything Porsche left on the table is several thousand dollars of overstated claims before you take a $13k+ trip to the machine shop to make it a 2.9 with required dual scavenge pumps. Or swapping in the 996’s 3.4L 300HP M96.
This is not a car for someone looking to do mods, in other words. But with the IMS already done, it’s perfectly cromulent as an affordable toy (NOT FOR THE TRACK) that you can do most jobs on yourself with ease. All it wants is coils, plugs, oil, good gas, and for you to never drive it hard cold. And maintenance is surprisingly affordable. (Unless you take it to the track. These are very susceptible to oil starvation. If you want a track toy, you need an M97 or a lot more budget.)
Why not for the track? I’ve been tracking my 2001 Boxster for a couple of years now. It handles great, and 217 HP in that car is more than enough to get you around without getting in over your head. Mine is usually one of several 986s on track.
I did add an extra large oil sump (to avoid starvation) and a Fabspeed exhaust (just for the sound) as well as maintenance items (coils/plugs/etc.). Mine also did not have the IMS done, so I took care of that as well. So at this point, as you say, it should be pretty bulletproof.
“It’s still a fucking grenade with the pin pulled.”
But that’s part of the excitement of owning one!
:-p
I love the RX-8; came close to buying one a couple times over the past few years, but I always get the sense it’s not a matter of IF the rotary fails, but WHEN. Couple that with the headache of trying to find a specialist nearby who can deal with it (few and far between here), and, well, oddly enough there are plenty Porsche shops around so I’d probably lean that direction.
It sure would be nice to fly out to California and drive that Boxster home. It looks very well priced to me, assuming the ECU report is clean enough.
I’d trust the Mazda to drive home, too, but I’m not sure if it would be rolling home in the clear or limping the last several hundred miles.
Apex seal problems are real, and if this one was driven hard, it’s approaching replacement time even if well-maintained. All the receipts in the world don’t tell you how hard the car was driven, unless it’s a Porsche new enough to have a engine ECU that keeps track of overrev data to give you a clue. Oh, look! The other car is a Porsche new enough to have just such an ECU!
Porsche, and not by a small margin. I’d trust both it’s current and future condition far more, it’s the better driving car, it’s a convertible, a better color, has a better interior, and it’s likely to increase in value even if you drive it, instead of falling to zero like an RX-8 will as it accumulates the miles. The only thing keeping this Boxster’s price down is the style of the headlight pods. Just be sure to check the ECU before you sign the papers and exchange cash for keys.
Oh hey it’s my field of expertise
OKAY SO
I made almost this exact decision earlier this year (01 986S, no IMS upgrade) and here’s everything about it that I regret and don’t regret
The good:
there is nothing like the Porsche flat 6. If anything, it doesn’t get enough love. This is a quiet, refined engine under 4k RPM, and then over that it becomes a deranged lunatic that absolutely begs you to give it more gas.
Even with absolutely worn to shit suspension, this thing handles like a dream. I never thought a car would make me no longer miss my Miata. I don’t miss my Miata anymore.
Surprisingly livable. This is the rare car with a frunk AND a trunk, i took a two month long road trip in this thing and managed to fit way more stuff than I needed.
Comfy. The seats are bolstered but still old luxury boat cushy.
Repairable. Most of the work is stuff you can do yourself. There’s tons of information online.
THE BAD
Finicky. Mine has a slight oil leak (probably needs a new RMS) and if the oil level is even slightly low, the engine runs like TRAAAAAAASH.
Repairs are expensive. My headlight switch died and the replacement (a Mercedes part known to be a frequent problem) cost like $200. The aforementioned RMS, along with the IMS refit, will cost me well into the thousands. Refreshing the suspension will cost about $1500.
Overall, it’s more reliable than you think, more refined than people say, performs better than you will understand without getting behind the wheel, but if the coils need replacement and it misfires, which WILL happen, you’re gonna immediately jump to “oh God is this the IMS/bore scoring finally killing it” every fucking time, and that anxiety never fully leaves you.
I had a 986 facelift about ten years ago. It was my first (and so far only) Porsche. Five minutes into the test drive I got it completely.
These are truly great cars, and something of a bargain (and thanks to the numbers built, they’ll probably stay that way). Well built, mostly reliable and as you say practical they’re wicked fun to drive and surprisingly liveable (i dailied mine).
Very happy memories of power sliding an RX-8 at Skip Barber aside, I can’t with the bodykit (just not my thing), and the IMS scares me. There’s a buyer for that car, but I’d have the Porsche.
Same here! Lime Rock is a special place.
RX-8. I need a rear seat for a little practicality. And this one has mods I’d dream of doing anyhow, so they have some value to me. Records from new seal it. Bonus being from CA and presumably current on its smog check. That makes registration and NY inspection much easier.
can confirm that the backseats are useful. Wife, kid (in carseat), and stroller all fit in the passenger compartment without too much issue. I’m 6’1″ (length favoring above the waist slightly) and it’s a bit low on headroom for me in the driver’s seat, but I’ve made it work since 2007 without regret.
Easily the Boxster. These are great cars and the major failure point of this generation has already been addressed with this example. While German cars have a well deserved reputation for being fussy maintenance nightmares Porsches really aren’t as bad as you think they are as long as you keep up with the maintenance and do your research.
Plus this is a manual. Other than the notorious IMS bearings one of the real things to fear going wrong on a well used Porsche is the transmission if it’s tiptronic or PDK. Hell, replacing a PDK is a 5 figure job. As amazing as that transmission is I’d absolutely never touch one once it’s outside of its warranty, although Porsche’s certified program is pretty amazing.
The RX-8 is more of a nightmare to keep running and the roof doesn’t go down. I respect people that take rotaries on but I’d personally rather take on a secondhand Porsche than a secondhand rotary. One of these days I may well buy a well loved 986 Boxster. 10 grand isn’t exactly f**k it money but it’s also not exactly a second mortgage either. I do wonder if having a regular car and a cheap-ish dedicated sports car in the stable is a better solution than spending 60-70k on a crazy daily that can do everything like an RS3, IS500, etc.
“I do wonder if having a regular car and a cheap-ish dedicated sports car in the stable is a better solution than spending 60-70k on a crazy daily that can do everything like an RS3, IS500, etc.”
Yes!
I made this exact decision just a few months ago IRL. Boxers are certainly nice (engine and car both), but rotaries are genuinely special. The contemporary Miatas’ suspension were based on the RX-8’s, and no one can say anything negative about how Miatas handle. It’s law. I never got a chance to throw a Boxster around and I’m sure it’s great, but the RX-8 is simply fantastic. Add the surprising practicality of the RX-8 package, and it’s not really that close a call. The engines are close in spec re: power (the RX-8 makes more hp, but less torque on paper; hard to ignore the way it revs in person; weighs 200lb more), they both have reasonable t/frunks. Only the RX-8 has a rear seat. Not just a vestigial package tray either, but a genuine usable rear seat. I have a 3 year old, and throw in the access afforded by the suicide doors, and it’s actually easier to get her the RX-8 than it is my wife’s 4 door Wrangler. Agreed that the price for an ’04 is a bit precious, but some people prefer the early cars (I was very specifically interested in the second generation for all the mechanical changes).
great to hear that. I often carry my 2 year old in the RX8 and agree that it’s genuinely practical. I’m a bit jealous of your gen2, I considered picking up another one since I love my 06 so much, but they’re so rare!
Love me some Boxsters. Would love to have one almost as much as I would a Cayman.
The RX-8 is a nice piece, but I didn’t fit in one very well. It seemed to have been designed around drivers of shorter stature.
For those reasons alone, I’ve made my choice. With the IMS bearing “fixed” the Porsche will probably last a good long time with maintenance. Don’t know how RX-8s stand with replacement parts, but would imagine Boxsters have a decent supply available. And they’re definitely fun to drive.
The Porsche is the better option, obviously. So I voted for the RX8.
I’ve always liked the RX8, issues with the Renesis motors aside. I would love a choppy, bridge-ported RX, there was an RX3 local to me growing up that sounded phenomenal. All that aside though, for $10-11k I think I’d find better ways to spend it than either of these two.
Sorry, but WTF is a ‘fried egg delete’?
(I voted for the RX-8. Boxsters are a dime a dozen around here, but RX-8s are pretty rare. And the rotary engine makes nice noises.)
The headlights on the 986/996 are derisively referred to as fried eggs by Porsche snobs, and are, along with the IMS issues, why the 986 and 996 are still comparatively affordable. One of the most common mods to this generation is to replace the headlights with fully clear ones, which is referred to as a fried egg delete.
If this sounds incredibly stupid to you, welcome to Porsche.
Going forward, I move that this should be known as the ‘egg white omelette’ mod instead.
Those headlights, with the integrated amber turn signals, are called eggs or fried eggs. Usually tolerated on Boxsters (since they came from the Boxster concept) but absolutely reviled on same era 911s.
I deleted a fried egg for breakfast this morning. Now I’m currently finishing up my coffee delete
I’m not a Porsche guy, but the condition plus fixed ims bearing is really hard to beat.
Sign me up for the Porsche maintained with Daddy/Hubby money. Ashiya has moved on from her gifted to her convertible, and we get the rewards. Plus my M3 needs a stablemate from the same year.
I don’t think I’ve vote for the winner in the last three of these but I’m not crazy and I stand by my choice. The RX8 is the more unique experience of these cars and to me the one I would rather have in my garage. In a world of fun convertibles there are many choices but getting into a rotary is a pretty limited pool.
I’ll take the taken care of stock Boxer over the boy racer RX-8
Not even close. I love the RX-8, but I’ve not seen an early one go for anything birth of $8k in a long time. The facelift ones go for more, but this price is crazy. And who doesn’t want a Porsche?