Color me unsurprised. Acura is trotting out a hot 2024 Integra Type S, a car that should really silence everyone who based their Integra memories on the hot GS-R and Type R models, then demonized the new Integra for being a five-door hatchback. While it’s destined to be a very niche product, I have a feeling that the Integra Type S will be massively revered on the second-hand market, especially once it exits production. Let me explain.
Let’s start with what we know about the Integra Type S. Acura announced on Monday that the Type S — the revived name it’s using for performance-focused cars — will have a two-liter turbocharged VTEC engine producing “over 300 horsepower” and putting power down exclusively through a six-speed manual gearbox with a limited-slip differential. On the regular Integra, a manual is only available on the top A-Spec model with the Technology Pack, albeit as a no-charge option. As expected, this probably means the new Integra will be fairly comparable to the new Civic Type R that it shares a platform with, and that’s good news because the new Type R is already winning over reviewers.
But while the regular Integra has been somewhat unfairly compared to frenetic VTEC memories from the Hot Import Nights era, the new Type S will be more faithful to our collective exaggerated version of history. And it had better really bring the heat to be worth it.
Let’s start by running through some numbers that we know. In America, a manual Acura Integra costs a whopping $7,700 more than a 2023 Civic Si at the time of writing. That’s a huge sum of money, especially considering what that $7,700 gets you. Aside from the obvious liftback and adaptive dampers that were standard on the old Civic Si, the Integra really just adds comfort features like a more powerful stereo, heated seats, a heated steering wheel, and a nameplate that instantly evokes good vibes for anyone who’s still really into Incubus. This puts the standard car on shaky ground and could spell serious sales trouble for the Type S.
Should the Type S model see a similar premium over the Civic Type R, it could be knocking on the door of $50,000. I repeat, $50,000. That’s butting up against full-on sports car territory, rubbing fenders with the manual Toyota Supra, Nissan Z, and well-specced Mustangs. Most people looking for a really hardcore Honda product will likely just save the money, get a Civic Type R, and just bundle up on cold mornings. What’s more, existing premium buyers aren’t likely to flock to the Integra Type S as Acura still doesn’t carry quite the same snob appeal as Mercedes-Benz or BMW, regardless of how underwhelming the 2-Series Gran Coupe is.
You may wonder, “what makes this different from the old Integra Type R?” Well, the 1997-2001 Integra Type R didn’t just gain a following because it was a fast Honda, it gained a following because it was the fastest front-wheel-drive Honda product Americans could buy.
The Civic Type R of the time never made the boat over from Japan, the Prelude was more of a high-tech, front-heavy grand tourer, and the Civic Si was down a whopping 35 horsepower from the ITR’s 195. While the Integra Type R Americans know and love was in a league of its own, it’s hard to believe that the new Integra Type S will be in another league from the current Civic Type R.
Granted, a handful of Integra Type R devotees will lap up the new Type S model, but apart from that truly tiny demographic, I can’t see much reason to spend the extra money over a Civic Type R. This should offer what we call “assured rarity,” meaning “nobody bought it when it was new.” However, assured rarity is often a very good thing when it comes to performance cars. Think Cadillac CTS-V Wagon, Honda S2000 CR, or any other fast car that lingered in showrooms when new yet is hotter than the surface of the sun right now.
For a start, the Integra Type S has legendary bones. It’s the full-fat, over-caffeinated version of the new Integra that the keyboard brigade has been shouting for since always. We’re talking about a premium small car based upon the hottest hatchback of the moment, the Civic Type R. It doesn’t seem to be missing much over the Civic Type R either. Car And Driver had a crack in a prototype and found it to still have the 265-section Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, the two-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine, and the six-speed manual gearbox from its Civic sibling. If anything, the Integra Type S should dial up the luxury while offering even more understated styling devoid of an enormous rear wing.
In addition, the Integra Type S carries nostalgia, not just for the old Integra Type R but for the internal combustion hot hatch era as a whole. Pretty soon, just about every new car will be electrified in some way which means that weight will go up, noise will go down, and the manual gearbox will go in the bin. Hot hatches are great because they often offer great sensation of speed without quite the same law-breaking pace as more serious sports cars, all while being practical enough to use as an only car. The end of the golden years is in sight and Acura’s going out with a mag dump.
The Acura Integra Type S isn’t likely to be a big seller and we’ll make up all sorts of justifications as to why we won’t buy it. It also may be a limited-production car, just like the Civic Type R was. However, its blend of performance, lineage, and assured rarity will likely make it a second-hand hero and a star of whatever internet car auction sites are still left in a decade’s time. While I have a feeling that the truly hardcore Honda folk will gravitate towards the Civic Type R, let’s be glad that Acura’s making a hot Integra at all.
All photos courtesy of Acura
Should have just made 1 Integra and given it the 2 liter turbo from the Accord. 250hp with a 6 speed or 10 speed auto. $35k.
Fill a void instead of just rebranding 2 already existing Civic trims with inflated price tags. As a bonus, it would have made for a much more compelling car versus the A3/CLA.
Not apples to oranges, but I picked up one of the early ILX’s with the 6 speed which were identical to the SI underneath the sheet metal, aside from the LSD. The price difference between the two made little sense when they were new because there really wasn’t that much “luxury” added for the Acura, but they go for about the same price used today. The type R and S will have much more lasting hype around them than those cars but if they depreciate to be close enough in value, the Acura could be appealing choice for people who favor the styling or want more of a sleeper with some small feature upgrades. Add in rarity if they don’t move many units and the premise makes sense
“Second hand icon”
Oh great, more fart cans, subwoofers and vanilla vape on the horizon.
Don’t worry, most honda enthusiasts will completely shun this thing.
First of all, why the fuck are they using the Skechers logo for their camo? (Once seen cannot be unseen.)
Secondly, this is not what people want. It never was. That’s why the sales have been – hang on, let me check my notes here – no, no, this can’t be right. I mean besides the Integra being classified as a compact.
Hang on, I need a second source.
Well. Huh. Acura has managed to move a whopping 1,496 Integras in the first half of 2022.
Meaning out of all non-discontinued cars, it beat… only the Mini Clubman. Literally the only thing in the segment. (Also, who the fuck sold a Dodge Dart and a VW Beetle?! The Beetle’s been discontinued for over 3 years!)
Hang on, I’m being paged with the Q1-Q3 analy… wow, I hope they have blameless root causes. Because the discontinued Acura ILX outsold it. Jesus.
So did the Honda Insight, VW Golf, Audi A3, Polestar 2, and Nissan Leaf to just keep heaping on the insults. To say the Integra is a sales disappointment is to completely fucking ignore the 96,286 Honda Civics sold in the same period. And the 216,575 Civics sold over the first 3 quarters last year. (Uh, Honda? You guys okay over there?)
Forget the price; the price isn’t the issue. The issue is that nobody who actually gives a shit about the Integra nameplate (HI!) knows that more than 50% of the magic of the Integra had NOTHING to do with the engine, and everything to do with it’s unique DC2 chassis. Yes, it can go decently fast, but not really. 170HP, and less torque than a contemporary Ford Escort. And no, that is NOT an exaggeration. Without the DC2 chassis, it was just a dressed up Civic with a fartcan.
And if you think that’s overselling the DC2, go look at the lap times of the Real Time Racing DC2 Integra versus a 6th gen Civic. Go watch a bone stock DC2 GS-R up against literally any contemporary. And remember, the EJ8/EK9 came after the GS-R and packs the equally potent B16B.
Wikipedia would have you believe they’re the same chassis or very closely related; they’re not. They would have you believe the Type R got magic reinforcements; no, it was a homologation special that got over 100 pounds of added weight and sacrificed usability and comfort. (Nearly every chassis change in the Type R is to reduce chassis tearing and cracking, not to improve rigidity.)
If you want more proof that they’re nowhere near as closely related as you think: the DC2 platform also came in the ZXi4WD and Xi4WD as the DB9. Yes, an AWD Integra. And far more importantly, the Integra offered good power, superb handling, was entirely different from Honda’s entry-level econobox, and did so without punishing you.
The new Integra does none of these things. It’s not significantly more agile. It’s not significantly faster. It’s not even significantly different in styling. Some idiot decided to cash in on nostalgia by slapping the badge on a very lightly restyled Civic, and pretending the only differentiator of the DC2 was a nicer stereo.
Slapping the ‘Type R’ badge is just another cynical attempt to crank up sales with more nostalgia; just putting more lipstick on a pig. The Acura isn’t even different inside either. There is literally no reason to buy an Integra over a Civic. Unless you’re an idiot looking to spend an extra $4000+ over a Civic Si for ‘prestige.’
But but but…the totally unbiased car publications and YouTubers say it’s actually a brilliant car despite the fact that the performance numbers are non starters in the classes it’s supposed to compete in! It’s a Honda with a manual so it HAS to be brilliant! Those are the rules.
Honda’s entire performance wing is nothing but a cynical cash grab at this point. They’re charging so much for their offerings that it’s putting them into price ranges they can’t compete in…and to add insult to injury they’re literally looking at what their competitors offer (performance automatics, all wheel drive, etc) and saying “you’ll get this the way we decide you’ll get it, take it or leave it”. Great attitude that’ll definitely win over customers who aren’t Honda fanboys who think it’s still 2004.
Don’t get me wrong-I’m sure this and the new CTR are brilliant to drive, and it’s not like I’m some Honda hater because my wife and I own one. But they’re massively overpricing these products for what they deliver in the hopes that enthusiasts and their core fans pony up because they’re manual and have name recognition. Basically, they’re taking us for fools.
Werd dude. I fucking hate this car.
And for the record I’ve had a few integras, preludes, civics, accords, all from the golden era of 86-99. Today’s honda is garbage. Even the new CTR sucks imho, the Elantra GT is closer to what a CTR should have been.
N. I meant N. No edit button.
I think the main reason they’ve sold so few Integras is that they’re impossible to get…. they aren’t building them fast enough. I know people who are still on the waiting list and have been since May.
It’s almost time to retire my trusty 2004 Honda V6 6speed so I’ll be looking for a 4 door as a replacement. I’d like something with a little bit of spice as well and one of my other requirements is having a manual, so the timing of this and the GR Corolla are pretty good for me. The only challenge now is navigating those damn ADM…
No, no, no…. no…. no.
That car fucking sucks. It’s not an integra. It’s a giant bloated sedan, and it has nothing that actual Honda enthusiasts want. It’s as bad as when Chevy brought back the Malibu name and shoved it onto that generic looking turd.
Seeing that car legit makes me angry for what COULD have been, but nope, marketing, gotta just slap a name on a boring, fat, giant turd, in hopes that the name will sell it. Fuck that car.
Oh, and “be glad they’re making an integra at all”
yeah NO boss. That’s like telling Mitsubishi Eclipse fans “hey well at least they’re still making an eclipse!” when it’s a gd crossover. This just pisses into the faces of the enthusiasts who’ve kept the fire alive, and dilutes the status that name once had. Now when people hear integra, instead of being excited, they have to follow it up with “is it that new stupid fat giant thing or the actual integra”. Man I’m going to stop ranting but seriously fuck that car so much.
One last thing, THIS IS WHAT THE INTEGRA SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/tgs-guide-japan/what-new-honda-integra-should-look
When they announce a car and we speculate we get some amazing renders, then shocking disappointment. I think the new Vette is a god awful mess of a design, it’s like a Camaro banged a 360 Modena on a European spring break. There were some cool designs out there when we had no idea what it would be like, we only knew it was mid engine. I have never been a Vette fan (other than a split window) and I was kind of getting ready to like it and maybe want it….
You want a new Integra? Buy a GR86 and quit whining.
To be fair, the Malibu has sucked since 73. So 50 years of suckage.
As the former owner of a ’75 Malibu Classic, I can mostly confirm that statement. The 350 with a 2 bbl and a slush box was slow as molasses, but it made the right noises, could do a nice burnout, and had a pea-green vinyl top. So overall, meh.
The premise is false IMO. It presumes the reasons to choose the Civic over the Integra won’t be exactly the same on the secondhand market a decade from now.
There is no cheaper rebadged version of the S2000 or the CTS-V wagon (or other examples you could have chosen like the Gen V Viper, Chevy SS, etc). The Civic R and the Integra S might *both* rise in value in the future, but I doubt their relative positions will change much.
These are also cars with 5+ year old engines and transmissions that have only received minor tweaks. I don’t think it’s a sure bet that they’re going to hold on to the legendary status that the automotive press unquestionably bestows on every single Honda performance product before it even hits showrooms. This is effectively increasing the number of CTRs out there and I don’t think the current one’s value in this bonkers market is a good indication of where they will eventually wind up.
Everyone buys into this OH IT’S GONNA BE THE LAST MANUAL PERFORMANCE CAR EVER narrative and yet manufacturers are still releasing new performance cars with manuals every year. And as I said below…on paper this product is DOA against ze Germans in the same class and the amount of fanboys that Honda relies on to move these products is finite and not a crowd that has unlimited finances.
They’re playing a dangerous game moving the CTR and now this upmarket and I don’t think they realize it.
I honestly forgot this was coming. But looking at it now, I think I’ll at least test drive one when they hit showrooms. Sure it’ll be tough to justify $50K+. BUT it’ll have three pedals and four doors. You can’t say that for the 3-series, the Audi, the Merc, the anything. It’ll be way more refined than a WRX. I could never see myself driving a Civic Type R (that rear wing is ridiculous). But I could see myself driving this.
I’m sure it’ll be a great car to drive but I don’t think it’s going to be particularly competitive at its price point *ducks*. Seeing as the current CTR is priced at a rather ambitious 45k I think it’s safe to assume that this will come in at 50+ where the competition from the Germans is going to be stiff. That’s well equipped S3/M240i or base C43/m340i money and all of those cars will wipe the floor with this performance wise and offer all wheel drive, which this won’t. There’s also the CT4 V Blackwing in striking distance of this if you want an unhinged manual luxury sedan specifically.
I think the incredibly stubborn “attainable performance cars are manual only” thing is going to backfire on the Japanese manufacturers eventually. Even if we (enthusiasts) all love manuals the general population doesn’t. If you’re part of the “manual or no dice” crowd obviously this or the CT4 V BW would be your pick out of the lot I mentioned but how what percentage of potential buyers are part of that group in 2022? It’s not a lot.
They needed to find a way to offer this with an automatic and all wheel drive, point blank. They can get away with forcing middle class enthusiast buyers in the 30k-40k range into manual front wheel drive cars but they’re going to have a harder time with it in the 50 range. I honestly thought finding a way to make the base TLX’s drivetrain work in an Integra would’ve been the best approach here.
Again, I think it’ll be an amazing car to drive and that the sorts of people who want it will be very happy, but I’m not so sure that it’s going to be a big success overall. It’s hard to make a manual and FWD only luxury product work in that price range. I don’t think their usual crowd has that type of money laying around and I’m not so sure that the luxury crowd who does will be swayed.
After taxes in Canada, it’s $51K (thank you Acura.ca configuator). That’s simply too much when the Elantra N comes in $5K cheaper and the Civic Si comes in $9K cheaper.
That said, the type R is well over $58K after taxes et al.
Makes me want to find an Accord Sport 2.0T and put a tune on it.
I’m obviously biased because I bought one but the N models make all of the sporty Civic variants a much harder sell for me. The Civic SI is a good car but for a couple grand more you can get a manual Elantra N which has roughly 80 more horsepower and pound feet of torque. The Honda fanboys are always quick to say “it won’t be as engaging and power isn’t everything” but 80 horsepower is a lot.
The CTR is an objectively better performance car than any of the Ns but the Ns max out at 35k USD and offer about 90% of the performance. It it worth paying another $10,000 to unlock that last little bit of power and engagement? For some people it might be, and that’s fine. But going purely off financials it’s not an amazing buy, although it will probably hold value a bit better.
The base Integra that makes you load it before you can unlock the stick is the biggest joke of them all though. 35k+ for a 200 horsepower front wheel drive hatchback is laughable. Honda is more or less all in on brand loyalists and the “it has to be manual” crowd keeping these cars afloat and I just don’t think it’s going to work out long term. I think Toyota’s approach with the GRC is way more compelling than any of the Civic variants even though I’d never personally daily a manual because I sit in traffic constantly.
It should basically be a 4/5th scale TLX Type-S with a manual option. I’d be interested in one. I’d like a *nicer* car with decent performance, but still don’t want to deal with maintaining a German car. I’m always looking for my Honda or Toyota Golf R.
Well Toyota sort of made one, that will cost as much as a German car after the dealers are done marking it up. Maybe I’d have a better chance with an Acura Type-S model after the dust settles.
This is everything wrong with modern cars imo. A maybe 15k (? Not in the US market but surely in another market) car turned into a 50k car. 300hp in a fwd car??? You are going to need some sticky rubber.
Who do they think they are competing with? As you said this will get destroyed by the Germans in every way but reliability, but more importantly why the heck would you buy this over a Lexus? Definitely pandering to the manual fanboys.
That’s all I’ve got left…the mandatory manual crowd and Honda fanboys. They’ve sliced themselves too thin with this product. It’s a $50,000+ Civic with only front wheel drive and no automatic option. The Venn Diagram of people who can afford $50,000+ luxury cars and the Hondacore crowd doesn’t have much overlap.
And why would you buy this over a TLX Type S in the same showroom? Is a manual so important that you’d give up more power, more space, more performance, and all wheel drive to row your own? If it is more power to you I suppose but it sure as shit isn’t for me or a lot of the other folks who could actually afford one of these.
The performance Civics are cool and good but they’re not cool and good enough that Honda will be able to get away with this stratospheric pricing. Making them manual only doesn’t justify paying a premium for less features. Honda is way behind the times and really overconfident in their products right now IMHO.
I am absolutely mandatory manual crowd for any sporty cars I own but I’m also not an insane person who would spend 50k on a civic.
I do not subscribe to the theory that you should buy the loaded cheap car instead of the base model luxury car though. For this reason I am not a fan of platform sharing such as Acura/Honda or MQB Audis.
Agree with you on the market segment. And those two groups will save some $ by buying the CTR. If they wanted to differentiate this, it would have AWD. That’s the only way I see this getting $50k. Otherwise, the TLX S is just $4k more.
Where might I buy a CT4-V BW for around $52,000?
What is with Honda and three exhausts? Makes sense on the three-cylinder GR Corolla. I could see it on a six-cylinder, but not a four-cylinder.
Probably the same logic that the 8 cylinder Ferrari F40 had 3 outlets, one of them probably only comes into play at certain engine speeds?
The center tip on the F40 was from the wastegate.