It’s not a Defender. It’s not a Defender. It’s not a Defender. It’s not a Defender. It’s not a Defender. It’s not a Defender. It’s not a Defender. It’s not a Defender. It’s not a Defender. It. Is. Not. A. Defender. We clear on that? [Editor’s Note: So, it’s a Defender? –JT] Excellent. Let’s begin.
The Ineos Grenadier is under a lot of pressure to not suck. The brainchild of petrochemical billionaire Sir Jim Ratcliffe and his off road enthusiast chums, it’s a car for people who want to do proper, analog off roading, and don’t want to rely on touch screens or potentially wonky electronics. Like most incredibly expensive ideas, the Grenadier came about after a night in the pub – the Grenadier in swanky Belgravia (London). Sir Jim and friends were a little miffed that the Land Rover Defender (which the Grenadier definitely isn’t) was going out of production and wanted something to do the same job but, y’know, better. Most people, after a few beers, sign up to do a marathon or catch a venereal disease or something. Sir Jim decided to build a car.
Its development story is long and well documented. It was going to be built in the UK, but a last moment offer of a fully kitted out factory and workforce in France was too good an opportunity to pass up. It’s powered by German engines, and was designed by a Brit. It’s a very European affair.
Now, seven years after a night in the boozer, Sir Jim has his car. And he very much hopes people like it as much as he does.
What’s it packing, then?
None of that modern monocoque muck, that’s for sure. It sits on a ladder chassis, has beam axles, and big ‘ol springs to soak up rocks. Under its hood is either a six-cylinder gasoline or diesel BMW-sourced straight six linked to an eight-speed ZF automatic transmission. The US will only be getting the gas car, which means a silky smooth 245bhp and a turbo-tastic 331lb ft. You’d perhaps expect that would mean it’s a bit brisk, but you’d be wrong. The Greandier’s a hefty thing, weighing in at 5875lbs, which is lots. Ineos says it’ll hit 62mph from rest in 8.6 seconds, and that it’ll top out at 99mph. Hardly neck snapping stuff, but just as one doesn’t rock North Face to the opera, heading up Everest in a set of Vaporflies would be just as ill advised.
The car comes with four wheel drive as standard, no part time nonsense here. You can, thanks to roof mounted buttons, lock its front and rear differential, kick off hill descent control, activate the car’s off road settings, turn on various power supplies, and much more besides. It feels a little like an airplane.
There’s plenty of space for five people and their gear to get comfy inside. This isn’t a huge surprise because of its footprint: it’s 193 inches long, 80 inches tall, and 76 inches wide. That means a wading depth of 31 inches, ample for puddles both big and small. It comes with a 35.5 degree approach angle, and 36.1 degree departure angle, too, so you needn’t worry about much bar the biggest of rocks.
Ineos has two specs on offer – Fieldmaster and Trialmaster. The former is a little more plush, while the latter is aimed at the hardcore. Under the skin the two are the same. US pricing is TBC, but in the UK it starts at $72,550.
So it’s not a Defender then?
No. And if you utter the D word near anyone associated with Ineos you’ll be met with a swift “It’s a Grenadier, actually.” While it’s designed to take on the rough stuff, and with that comes a certain bodystyle, there are elements of all kinds of off road royalty in there (hello, Land Cruiser).
The Grenadier’s presence (read: bigness) does come with a rather unfortunate side effect: getting in can be a challenge. It’s so high off the ground that at 5’8” (5’9” on a good day) getting into the drivers seat was a challenge. There’s no grab handle, so you have to reach for the ‘wheel to hoist yourself in. Getting out is more of a short fall than a graceful step out.
Access to the trunk is an odd one. There’s an asymmetrically split door, with the larger side taking up all bar about a foot – this isn’t the end of the world, as you should just open the big bit, lob your stuff in, and away you go. Except the small bit opens first, leaving space for a gallon of milk and not much else. You can see what Ineos was thinking – a small first step for occasional stuff so you don’t need lots of space behind all the time, but the gap is so oddly sized you end up cracking the whole thing open anyway.
The materials inside, though criticized on social media, are pretty plush. The plastics aren’t harsh, the seats are pretty (and you can hose them down if they get too muddy, which is cool), you can press all the important buttons with gloves on, and the steering wheel is finished in a lovely brown leather.
There’s one odd bit of incongruity that’ll make you scratch your noodle though – in the center console there are three different levers, each finished differently. The handbrake gets lovely leather, the gearshifter is the standard unit you get with the ZF/BMW setup, and the lever for selecting high and low ratios is a vintage-esque cueball affair. It’s a sort of automotive powerclash that can’t quite make up whether it wants to be classy, modern, or pleasingly retro.
While it’s mostly analog and screen-free in there, there’s something missing: a speedo. There’s nothing above the ‘wheel bar a small panel for warning lights (none of which went on during the test drive). Instead, your speed, revs, CarPlay, off road info… everything is taken care of by a centrally mounted touch screen. It works well, and the UI is pretty intuitive, though for a car so lead by chunky ruggedness the fact it takes the place of real dials feels a bit off.
What is mildy mystifying is where all the space for cubby holes went. There’s a door bin, and a bucket thing in the center console, but that’s about it. No small pockets to put wallets, keys, etc in.
Getting to the rocky stuff
It’s probably fair to say that plenty of Grenadiers will spend the vast majority of their time on tarmac rather than off it. This means the rugged car has to have some on road chops, and… it does. The petrol drivetrain is quiet, only really making itself heard when you stamp on the gas. The ZF ‘box is smooth, too, swapping happily between ratios as you trundle along.
For a heavy thing, it moves briskly, which is pretty neat. Importantly, the fact it’s so damn big means you have space for your arms. In Land Rovers of old your right (in RHD cars) elbow spent most of its time either tucked by your side, hitting the door, or resting on the frame if the window was open. No need here.
It brakes straight and true, as you’d hope. On road steering is a little strange though. It keeps you busy, feeling vague at the best of times, and something of a guessing game at others. While it’s not a car designed for on road prowess, you’d hope for something a little bit sharper.
Boxy dimensions and heft don’t help in other areas – the windshield is tiny, the wipers small and not hugely effective. Also, by some quirk of aerodynamics if there’s gunk on the road the side windows get covered in a fine layer of filth remarkably easily. The combination can make it tricky to see forwards, while the rear being covered largely by a spare wheel means rear vis is also limited. Bar the rear wheel being in the way, these problems are solvable on the fly, but are kinda irritating.
A smooth ride means you won’t need to peel yourself out of it at the end of a long trip cursing yourself for having bought a car designed so obviously for not doing road work, you’ll feel decently fresh (especially if you have heated seats specced). You’ll be a little irritated when you have to make the long jump to the ground though.
Go on then, is it any good off road?
Ineos, being a car brand that wants to show off how good its new car built to go off road is at going off road, laid on a rather incredible selection of Scottish off road treats for us to play in. Whether it was counting on deep (for the UK – pipe down, Canadians) snow, then sheet ice to rock up was another matter.
Starting on easy stuff, all you needed to do was pop it into off road mode and point it at lumpy things. The ease with which it took inclines was staggering. Experts would find it fun, novices needn’t be daunted. The car’s all wheel drive set up just… goes. That’ll neatly cover the types who have the odd muddy field to cross, or perhaps who occasionally go shooting. But what about Sir Jim and his mates who want the Grenadier to explore as yet unseen territory? From what we saw it’ll manage that too.
Point it at the kind of incline you’d be nervous walking up, make sure the car’s various mechanical components (Ineos has avoided digitization where possible so the car’s easier to fix on the fly) are primed for trouble, and off you go. Of course, you can’t attack it with Dakar-winning gusto, but slow and steady will win out.
Its massive ride height helps. Spot a rut, lump, rock, small village ahead and you needn’t worry too much about whether you’ll get over it. The wheels, popped helpfully as close to each corner as possible, can simply hop on over, while the high springs should avoid any unpleasant beaching. If there is anything pointy, Ineos has the underbody well protected.
Here, the Grenadier’s chunky controls come into their own – everything is close, and doesn’t take a degree in offroadology to get to work. The roof mounted buttons are easy to stab at, but as the whole panel’s largely grey you do have to search for your mark a little. The steering, while odd on road, works wonderfully here, giving you decent control over what’s going on. Size does become something of an issue – the hood is long, so when you crest a hill, or find yourself somewhere narrow there’s an element of guesswork.
Should I?
Here’s the rub with the Grenadier. It’s incredible off-road and will fulfill pretty much any overlander’s wildest dreams. But there are odd bits that don’t quite make sense. The lack of cubby holes, the tiny trunk opening, the fact you need a winch to get into the thing and a cushion to land on when you get out, the oddly ineffective wipers, strange steering, and other such small details rather get in the way. Those are all things that legacy manufacturer would have got right straight away, and they do begin to irk the more you use the car.
Then there’s the D Word. This isn’t technically one, but you get the impression that this new machine is what the Defender could have become. Land Rover could have built a car like this in the mid-aughts to evolve its darling, but it didn’t. This feels like the car that should have come somewhere down the line. It’s not perfect, but for what Ineos wants it to do it’s bang on. If you want your hands warmed, touch screens, and grab handles there’s a car out there for you, if you want to breeze up hills and aren’t bothered where to put your wallet… Ineos has your back.
I really like the look of this. And at that price it is better than any Jeep or Bronco you can get. But i wonder calling it the grenadier, root word grenade, usage my car grenaded ie blew up? Hey by our brand new Chevy Lemon, or the new Ford Power On Shift demand, the Subaru Spontaneous Combustion? Gotta get the good ideas drinking but work our the details sober.
A Grenadier was originally a specialist soldier who threw hand grenades in battle, so it tosses grenades instead of catching them
Overall I’m a big fan of this thing…apart from it being an automatic and having a BMW engine. If it had a manual and Toyota engine it would be perfect…because never mind the classic Defender, it’s the Landcruiser 70 that I really want.
The Grenadier starts at $72,550 so really this is just sounds like a Santana with extra (more expensive) steps, so much for a building a “farmers” truck. Also how is this truck more analog than the current Defender? Looks like it has just as much electronics as the Defender.
P300 Defender:
Approach: 38°
Breakover: 28°
Departure: 40°
Wading: 36″
Ground Clearance: 11″ (plus another 2″ in extended off road height)
Grenadier:
Approach: 35.5°
Breakover: 28.2°
Departure: 36.1°
Wading: 31″
Ground clearance: 10.6″
If they were supposed to build a better Defender, doesn’t look like they read the assignment properly.
So it’s like a really nice restomod of an OG Defender, with incredibly similar iconic design, modern electronics and powertrain, a significantly nicer interior, and a warranty, all for $50-150k less than a nice restomod OG Defender? What’s not to like?
“The car comes with four wheel drive as standard, no part time nonsense here. ”
I think there is a missing word here. Did you mean to say full-time 4wd? or All wheel drive?
Its full time 4wd. Or in SAE speak full-time variable torque passive AWD, but with the ability to go to part time.
Land Cruiser or nothing at all.
That seems very reasonable priced for an all-new niche machine.
It’s a good thing this is a vanity project for a super rich individual because the business case is not great. I hear he is personally 1.5B into it at this point. Even if he makes 20 grand on each one, its going to be 75,000 units before break even. Of course that’s not counting distribution, marketing, etc. This is a lossy truck for the foreseeable future.
This thing holds so much appeal to me. I backcountry camp 30-50 nights a year and this thing seems like an absolute dream. I remain skeptical that the company will be around (at least selling cars) long enough to provide long term parts and service.
We’re probably in the last 5 years of non-electrified new vehicles, and this thing seems like something special I’d want to keep for a lifetime.
Lovely. If anyone sees Sir Jim in the pub again, someone could point out the sad disappearance of the Lotus Elise as well?
I always thought it would be an obvious continuation for Caterham to buy up the Elise production line and use it to replace/supplement the 7.
How does the size of this compare to the last generation of Defender? Is it wider and longer?
Fun fact: These are built in the same factory that once built all five of my Smart Fortwos! With Smart production moving to China, Ineos got the old Smartville plant. Last time I checked, Daimler has a contract with Ineos to continue Fortwo production at the plant until Mercedes-Benz is ready to kill the car sometime likely in the next year.
This is worthy of its own article :O
Sad the smart cars are being moved to China 🙁
As the owner of a 1973 Land Rover Series III (predecessor to the Defender) I’d say that judging from the photos, the Grenadier actually IS full of electronics. I see very few analog controls or readouts.
No mention of Lucas! No mention of Lucas! No mention of Lucas! No mention of Lucas! No mention of Lucas! No mention of Lucas!
Wow, 70k for a semi-luxury 4×4? That sounds fantastic especially compared to the $139,000 Mercedes G-Wagon. Yes, the Merc does have more luxury, tech and bigger engines but are still pretty standard 4x4s.
Thats how I see it. Good value for money. The 200 series was on its way to 90 grand when it left the market.
They should’ve used Toyota engines or perhaps even a GM V8
Gas/Petrol
2GR-FKS, with or without a supercharger
some kind of LSx
Diesel
Cummins 2.8
Toyota doesn’t sell its engines to anyone. BMW does, apparently.
Lotus have used Toyota engines for the past 15 years or so.
Good point. I guess they have in fact sold their engines out in the past. I forgot about the GR and ZZ. I agree with you btw, I would love a 2ur in there. Reliable as the day is long.
1UR-FE, not 2UR. Not that a 5.0 liter NA engine would be a bad thing.
GM LS V8 would be a no-brainer first choice if they were serious about the US market. Powerful, reliable, dead-nuts easy to get parts for.
Love that button layout
For the longest time I had no idea the Ineos Grenadier Pro Tour team (cycling) was sponsored by a truck company. I have to admit this is a cool toy for the 1%.
Ineos is primarily a chemical company and one of the largest privately owned companies. They also own a third of the Mercedes F1 team (Mercedes themselves have another third and Toto Wolff the last third). This is somewhat of a passion project for a wealthy individual as are the sponsorship and ownership of the above.
Don’t forget the America’s Cup sailing sponsorship. Dude has money to throw around.
The Lack of a manual transmission kills it for me but it does have a lot of great off roading tech. Like the roof is reinforced so you can put stuff up there without a roof rack (which really helps the aero when you don’t have stuff up there).
The age of the manual seems to be in its final throes. The next generation Tacoma will probably be automatic only, leaving only the Wrangler, Gladiator and Bronco as “trucks” available with a stick.
I’m not sure what we can do to coerce car makers to bring back manuals for one last hurrah before everything gets electrified, but for now I’m planning on holding onto my 6MT Tacoma forever.
Sadly so.
I think the best way is to not buy any ICE powered automobiles (including hybrids) without a manual transmission. That’s my policy.
I’m in the market for several new cars but I won’t buy any ICE powered automobiles without a manual transmission, I very well may end up just getting a BEV if one I want comes out before a new automobile with a manual transmission. If nothing new comes out for sale in the US before 2026 I’ll end up resto modding some older cars so they can last the rest of my life as daily drivers.
Ah Shit, I noticed my first AD ((
“the fact you need a winch to get into the thing and a cushion to land on when you get out, the oddly ineffective wipers, strange steering, and other such small details rather get in the way” seems remarkably like my jeep wrangler.
I thought the same thing. Had Alex added “Bad radio, lots of NVH, and wanders in crosswinds,” and I would have thought this was a Wrangler review.
Is “steeringwheel” one word across the pond? There’s two instances of ” ‘wheel ” in the article; don’t get me started on ” ‘box “, which is annoying but at least an abbreviation.
Pendantry aside, who is this for, at least in the US? The Defender is not an icon here, it’s barely known. Will this take you farther off-road than a Wrangler or Bronco? Is it much nicer inside? From the pictures it’s hard to tell. $70K buys you an awful lot of off-roader in the US.
Anecdotal but soccer moms in the metro areas across the southwest are all about jeeps, broncos and defenders. New, old, and restomodded. Not that I understand it, since they are often kitted out with all sorts of offroadery but likely never leave pavement. I suspect grenadiers will sell the eff out rapidly to mostly people using 20% of the capability.
I agree with you in that most who buy this will not be taking it over anything more challenging than a dirt road or icy driveway.
My question is more about how and why this is better than a $50K Jeep or Bronco, to say nothing of a $70K Bronco Raptor? As you say, the soccer moms already love those.
In the UK where it’s basically Land Rover or nothing, this makes some sense. But the US has a very strong base of competent off-roaders with loyal ownership bases. The unique selling points of this thing over that competition is what I was hoping to see more of in the review.
“My question is more about how and why this is better than a $50K Jeep or Bronco, to say nothing of a $70K Bronco Raptor? As you say, the soccer moms already love those.”
Soccer moms also love exclusivity. And if Karen just got a Bronco Raptor, then there is no way in hell you can get one, so this just might be the thing to show up Karen and her stupid Pony truck at Timmy’s next tournament.
I actually see these selling fairly well to that certain class of buyer who has way too much money, no offroading ambitions, but a burning desire to be seen as exclusive and trendy in their day-to-day activities.
Personally I think this is pretty cool so I hope you’re right. I will say that the deliberate deemphasis of technology probably makes that a harder sell in 2023.
Gauging by the number of D110s and series iii’s around here driven by said soccer moms, I don’t think content is important. They all seem to have gone to the same shop to get aftermarket a/c but they’re rowing their own gears man!
Make that Hockey Dads and it would be about right. An inch of snow got the M5 stranded? Take the Grenadier! The parking lot at the rowing club is dirt? Grenadier!
Who this is for has been a question throughout the cars development. It seems to be for people who long for a Defender, but not the new one, and not a second hand old one either. It was going to be equivalently priced to the OG Defender, but costs have crept up to New Defender prices during development.
It did have a very strong brexiteer, little englander vibe (urgh!) which got quickly forgotten when a cheap manufacturing plant became available abroad.
Whether there are enough farmers and land owners in Britain who go for this to make it a success remains to be seen. Given it was so Britain focused, to compromise RHD so heavily seems a strange choice.
To deliberately style a ground up new car to so heavily rip off a discontinued rival seems an odd choice and a massively lacking in originality.
Given the brexiteer vibes and plagiarised design I can’t look favourably at it nor the company.
I see this as another Santana, and it will end up just like the Santana. Either that or it will go even higher up market because it’s so low volume and they can’t make money any other way.
Basically it’s an enclosed, wagon bodied Wrangler alternative that also has a solid front axle.
I think it’s the only other option with no IFS from the factory.
The US-spec G wagon is now IFS as well, so is the Bronco, 4Runner, GX, etc.
Is a solid front axle a selling point in the $70K+ market?
All the others you listed went to IFS because of customer demand for better on-road manners.
I’d wager the majority of the buyers for this, or the G Wagen, or the Bronco, etc couldn’t describe the differences in the suspension. They will pitch a fit the first time they experience death wobble though.
Yes, very much a selling point for a serious off-roader.
It’s actually one of its most important features.
It’s meant for a specific niche of the overlanding/4×4 market, not for the average G-wagen and Bronco buyers. I don’t think a lot of buyers will cross-shop this with either of those.
I’m aware of the reputation for solid axles among online enthusiasts. What I question is the number of them ready to pay $70K (to start) for an untested brand.
For something like this to succeed, it has to sell to soccer moms too.
To put it mildly, off-roaders are not the reason the previous G Wagen stayed on sale for 15 years here.
It’ll probably sell in moderate numbers, a few hundred a month, maybe even less.
I bet there’s still going to be a long waitlist to get one due to limited production.
I don’t think the success strategy here is to sell in huge quantities.
The Grenadier is a factory option with warranty for those who’d otherwise SAS an LC200 and find the Wrangler too small for an overlanding platform.
You’re exactly right. The people who gripe about not having a solid are not the ones buying this thing. There have been many advancements in modern suspension design that make vehicles like this more livable. Maybe I’m also bitter from having to replace all the movey pieces in my old Grand Cherokee’s solid axle front suspension, but I digress. If they want this to be analog and field repairable maybe it should ship with a crate of parts most likely to fail because good luck finding replacement parts when you need them.
I hear what you are saying, but I think this vehicle isn’t going to have mass appeal anyway. They didn’t sell that many Land Cruiser 200’s or G-wagons either, its just rarified air. That being said, people are buying the 392 Wrangler for 83 grand.
The ExPo crowd have above average funds to spend on a vehicle. A person ready to drop 90 grand on a Land Cruiser to kit it out with another 30 grands worth of stuff will happily look at the 76 grand Grenadier and see its style and functional charm as assets in comparison.
The Defender may not have the fanbase that a Wrangler does, but it is most definitely an icon. Just look values on BAT are. Hell my buddy bought a reasonably low mileage one in the late 90’s, put 100k miles on it, and sold at a profit 10 years later. Anyone who is a fan of a proper OG Defender (which was neither comfortable, good driving, nor luxurious, even by Jeep standards) will appreciate this.
Spent family holidays in a Series IIa, learned how to drive in said IIa, my dad had a 300Tdi D90 in the 90’s as his commuter car. Seems they haven’t learnt the lesson that Land Rover learned with the old Defender (as well as Santana before that). I don’t see this doing very well because they won’t be able to compete with any commercial offerings and Soccer moms aren’t going to choose this over a used G-Wagon. I think it’s going to suffer the same fate as the old Defender, almost rabid online following with little or none of the said fans putting their money where their mouths are.
The Defender might not have as much of a fan base as Jeep *In the US*, but in the UK it’s completely the other way around.
It’s probably 10% that it’s got a bit of extra space and towing capacity over the Bronco/Wrangler, 90% exclusivity, the ability to flex on people who bought mere late model Defenders without looking like you’re trying to flex. At least in part due to Canada’s 15 year import law, older Defenders are relatively common here, and they’re pretty much all driven by middle-aged guys who look like they’ve got decent desk jobs, and spend a lot of time either at a cottage in the Muskokas or up at Algonquin, but nothing more remote than that.
Love the idea of the roof mounted switches, but not if I need to take my eyes off the road. Overall, seems like a nice Defen….sorry.
They probably control settings you choose when stationary anyway. Besides, how do you keep your eyes on the road when you are busy destroying a riverbed or forest floor?
I feel like those sorts of compromises are often what gives a car character. It’s the sort of thing where tolerance is earned, and that tolerance eventually becomes affection.
That said, this is way more D******r than Land Rover’s new Defender. What the hell even is that????
The new Defender? It’s the new suburban Mommymobile-for soccor moms who miss their Land Cruisers yet still think the Cadillac Escalade is too soft for harassing Camry drivers.
If you think of it as actually being the new Land Rover Discovery it’s not as bad.
I saw one of their test vehicles parked on the street near me last month. It definitely seems massive, especially on British roads. What I found strange were the accessory strips on the sides. I can’t imagine anyone actually using those. It just seems like something that would generate a ton of wind noise. The other strange thing was that the test vehicle had German number plates. It does look great overall though.
Those are accessory strips? I thought they were to protect the sides from shopping cart dings.
Logistics track. I think its great and people will definitely use them. Whether they should is another matter, but people shouldn’t be putting the amount of crap on roof racks that they do so…whatever.
Yay, Alex Goy on The Autopian!!!
But the Grenadier, why don’t they use the Mercedes engines? Seeing as Ineos owns a huge chunk of the Mercedes F1 team and Range Rovers now have BMW engines in them again this is a bit odd.
Actually either brand of engine makes it a non starter for me. Turbo’s in wet off road terrain seems to be a recipe for disaster, but more so since Bavaria cannot seem to make a boosted engine work very long anyway.