Today we’ve got a list of the 20 most enduring vehicles on the road, a big move from BYD, a bad update from Renault-Nissan, and reasonable news about the chip shortage.
Welcome to The Morning Dump, bite-sized stories corralled into a single article for your morning perusal. If your morning coffee’s working a little too well, pull up a throne and have a gander at the best of the rest of yesterday.
The Toyota Sequoia Is Reportedly The King of Lifespan
The prevailing wisdom around The Autopian is that the most reliable car is the one built with cheap, easy-to-source parts that you can work on yourself. Still, not everyone wants to spend every waking minute wrestling bolts under a Chevy Tracker. A new study from iSeeCars, the used car/VIN check site, shows what analysts at the site think are the most durable cars sold within the last 20 years.
Up top is the Toyota Sequoia at 296,509 miles of “potential lifespan,” followed closely behind by the Toyota Land Cruiser and Chevy Suburban. What’s conspicuous on this list are the numerous Toyotas, though there are a decent number of GM and Honda products on here. There are two Fords (Expedition and F-150) and one Nissan (Titan).
A lot of these “studies” from car websites are questionable, but well-known analyst Karl Brauer put this one together and the methodology seems sound. Here’s how iSeeCars made the determination:
iSeeCars analyzed over two million cars produced and sold for at least 10 of the past 20 model years, ranking each model by its highest mileage-achieving cars. All 20 models had at least 2.5 percent of the top-ranking 20 models clear 200,000 miles, and the top 1 percent of these vehicles delivered between 230,000 and 297,000 miles over the last two decades. For example, 1% of Toyota Sequoias on the road have at least 296,509 miles on the odometer.
I’m curious what the corpus is, but with all the data that iSeeCars has at its fingertips this isn’t a difficult study for them to produce, and the concept of “lifespan” being determined by having at least 1% of these higher mileage cars on the road is interesting.
“What we see is a list of highly-durable vehicles, capable of more than a quarter-million miles of use if properly maintained,” said Brauer. “And to be clear, this study isn’t reporting the maximum lifespan of these vehicles. This is simply a measure of current odometer readings. Most of these cars are still in use and going strong.”
That’s right, if you’re at 252,360 miles on your GMC Yukon XL, keep on truckin’ baby.
Big trucks and SUVs make sense, both because they’re engineered to be durable and because their value as second- and third-hand work or adventure vehicles (hello Landcruiser) makes it profitable keep these on the road. It’s possible that you can keep a Honda Fit on the road for this long, but the residual value likely drops to the point where there’s less economic incentive to keep those on the road.
The Sequoia is mostly a Tundra underneath, so the durability makes sense, but they don’t seem to be as popular as the LC as an off-road rig. It’s worth noting that the analysis excluded heavy duty vehicles, which are designed for higher mileage.
[Editor’s Note: It seems that, based on how this data set was produced (basically, iSeeCars figured out which cars had the highest percentage of registered vehicles above a certain odometer reading), we can’t really conclude that these cars are the best built (though there’s likely some truth to it), since there are many factors that might lead a vehicle to keep going longer than other vehicles. The way a vehicle is driven and the way it’s maintained play big roles; an expensive car may get better treatment than a cheap one. A work-vehicle (like Matt mentioned) may stay on the road longer since its ability to perform its intended function doesn’t diminish as much as, say, a minivan (which after 10 years isn’t as safe or efficient as its competitors — and these are super important traits to shoppers in this segment).
I myself have owned a 265,000 mile Toyota Land Cruiser and a 265,000 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The former was still worth a lot, since these vehicles are known to last this long with few issues. A 265,000 mile Jeep, though, is worth very little, as people are suspicious that it won’t last much longer. Is it because the 4.7-liter V8 in the Toyota is better than the Jeep’s 4.0? No. I think serviceability plays a big role (the Toyota is a little easier to fix and maintain, in my experience), and so does initial value. The Land Cruiser is an expensive machine, so it tends to be treated better. Jeeps get beaten on.
Unrelated: I welcome you enginerds discussing the technical definition of “durability” in the comments. -DT]
Renault And Nissan Still Haven’t Figured It Out
Last week I mentioned that those lovable scamps at Nissan and Renault were trying to repair their troubled alliance and even had a planned announcement to explain how they were going to fix it all.
We’ve got an update from Automotive News Europe this morning on how that’s going:
Oh well.
BYD Is Coming To Japan Next Year
If I haven’t already made it abundantly clear: I think BYD is the most interesting carmaker to watch over the next five years. The Shenzen-based carmaker is, first and foremost, a battery maker (the company rose to prominence making the batteries that might have powered one of your cellphones). BYD has managed to keep costs in China lower than the competition while also building cars capable of getting five stars in crash test ratings from EuroNCAP.
The company has been running a pilot sales program in Norway and they’re going to be for sale across the continent over the next few months.
Now we have a new story from Reuters that says BYD is going to enter the Japanese market in early 2023.
The Shenzhen-based auto and battery producer, which includes Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway as an investor, held a brand conference in Tokyo and announced plans to start selling a small all-electric battery car called the ATTO 3 at the start of next year, followed by two additional EV models later in 2023.
Japan’s market has not, historically, been a great place for foreign automakers to sell cars. It’ll be interesting to see how BYD manages.
No North American Car Plants Are Cutting Production Due To Microchips
Here’s a little bit of sunshine on your Monday morning from Automotive News, which is reporting that automakers are not cutting any vehicle production at North American plants this week because of chip shortages.
That doesn’t mean there are no cuts anywhere, however:
While more modest than many other production schedule modifications this year, the latest cuts bring the global industry to a loss of nearly 4.2 million cars and trucks in 2022 to date, according to AutoForecast Solutions.
That’s a lot of cars, but the story goes on to note that the original forecast of vehicles delayed this year dropped by more than 90,000 vehicles. Does this mean we’ve reached the bottom? I’m cautiously optimistic, even with disruptions from COVID and the global economy, as well as war in Europe.
The Flush
What’s the highest mileage vehicle you’ve ever had? How many miles do you have on your daily?
Photos: BYD, Toyota, Ford, iSeeCars, Renault
My highest mileage car was a Honda Civic that had 365,000 on it and was still running as a daily driver when I finally got rid of it.
“iSeeCars analyzed over two million cars produced and sold for at least 10 of the past 20 model years, ranking each model by its highest mileage-achieving cars. “
To answer the question of the corpus: it’s from vehicle registration data. So what iSeeCars is analyzing, is the mileage reported on registrations and renewals. Which means these are cars still on the road.
“Renault and Nissan are set to delay a Wednesday announcement of a deal to restructure their automotive alliance as they struggle to bridge their differences, three people familiar with the matter said.”
And in what I am assured is completely unrelated news, Renault has placed an order for 2 dozen sets of functioning 18th century dueling pistol reproductions, and the Japanese government has announced an investigation of Emmanuel Macron for suspicion of prostitution, while casually mentioning their 99.99% conviction rate.
And make no mistake, this is a proxy battle between two governments. Not simply two businesses making absolutely terrible decisions repeatedly.
“Japan’s market has not, historically, been a great place for foreign automakers to sell cars. It’ll be interesting to see how BYD manages.”
… the Tokyo Prosecutor’s Office has said they will announce an investigation into BYD’s finances tomorrow, along with the customary warning that any irregularities will result in whatever is most effective for removing the gaijin from the country.
What’s the highest mileage vehicle you’ve ever had? How many miles do you have on your daily?
185,000. On an ’86 Daytona TurboZ C/S. On the original block, turbo, and transmission. No rebuilds, transmission only ever had the 3/4 synchro replaced. (Original head was replaced due to a traffic jam literally in Death Valley on a >110F day causing catastrophic overheat.)
But, of course, it’s Renault and Nissan, so they will continue to make absolutely terrible decisions repeatedly anyway.
350k on my rhd mail XJ. Beaten like a rented mule 6 days a week. I plan on driving it until parts are no longer attainable.
My highest milage care was a 1996 Lexus LS400 – sold at about 199K miles. My current vehicle is a 188K mile F-150 3.5 ecoboost.
My highest-mileage car was the 1960 Austin-Healey my father gave me. He bought it new and put more than a half-million miles on it. Not slow, easy miles, either. The engine was rebuilt twice. I put another ~50K on it before (very reluctantly) selling it, as I couldn’t afford the restoration it richly deserved. It mainly needed a cosmetic redo at that point.
Looks like three of the highest-mileage vehicles on the list are actual cars. the rest are trucks/SUVs. My guess is that most would see gentle use, which suggests they’d last a good long time. None exactly invite “spirited” driving.
Ray Charles could read this and say that it’s wrong! Who does these tests? The same people calling about my extended warranty on my 62 continental? FFS, GARBAGE ARTICLE!
The question that comes to my mind when I look at that durability study is the condition of the vehicle in question. I grew up with Suburbans and my brother still drives his 2008 Yukon XL Denali. The saying is true – GM’s will run badly longer than most will run at all. My brother’s has almost exactly the mileage the list suggests he should have, but he’s had to replace his stereo and HVAC controls, his ABS module is dead, he’s had to replace a worn pinion bearing, many of his electrical items no longer work, it overheats towing anything, and the interior is absolutely falling into ruin. Yes, it runs, and he plans to keep it until it dies…and that makes him sad because he knows that will probably be many horrible years from now. He’s handy and does take care of his things. It’s not neglected, it’s just GM.
On the other side of the coin, my 2008 GX470 has about 220,000 miles and honestly it feels more like a 5 year old car than a 14 year old one and it shows no signs of being anything but perfect for some time. Not a drip of fluid anywhere, engine bay is dusty but otherwise perfect, everything works including air suspension components and adaptive dampers, tows great, etc etc. Sure the seats are getting worn, the carpet is a little gross (kids…amiright?), and the paint isn’t perfect, but thats just unavoidable wear. The only thing I’ve had to do to it so far (bought at 139,000 miles) has been maintenance (timing belt and water pump), A torn CV boot, a seal on the transfer case output that was slightly weepy, and dry rotted suspension airbags which were cheap and easy to replace. Oh and brakes, this thing freaking loves brakes.
So yes, some cars are long lived in terms of being drivable, but what kind of experience is it along the way?
I’m sure their condition isn’t that great. I have about 260K on my ’02 Tahoe. I seem to have avoided the typical GM quality of things falling apart, either by luck or just keeping up with maintenance and repairs – everything still works like it should. What kills me though, living in Wisconsin, is the usual rocker/fender/rear quarter rust starting to eat away at it.
I had a 96 Toyota T100 that had right at 360k on it when I sold it. Daily is a 13 S4 with 99k and change.
I am less interested in the list of the most durable cars and more interested in a lost of most *adorable* cars.
Show me the first-gen Dodge Neon, the Autozam AZ-1, the Nissan Pao, and that new electric Honda that we don’t get here!
Also interested in an edit function because now my typo is immortalized to posterity, and I am embarrassed.
Aircooled VW Beetles / Karmann Ghias, Subaru 360, NA Miata with the headlights up, Bugeye Sprite, the list goes on!
I bought a 2006 Nissan Frontier NISMO 4×4 with 136K, it was an absolute disaster and I got rid of it as soon as possible at a 4 digit loss. In the year that I had it, I only got to put 4K on it, as it was in the shop a lot, and I didn’t trust it to go out of town. Don’t let anyone fool you into thinking an old Frontier is a solid, reliable buy. They are not the simple, robust vehicles you think they are.
Highest mileage: 388K, ’93 Ford F150. 4.9L. Bought it ~18 years ago with about 156k on the clock.
Miles on the daily: 36,500ish. ’18 Miata.
I got respect for piloting a fiso for this long. Or should I say herding? The high mileage Ford I used to have had some slop in the steering to put it lightly.
I’ve rebuilt just about everything on the truck once so far. Except the rear-end, its getting sloppy and I probably should, no noise yet though.
Front suspension was at about 220k, and didn’t really need it. I was bored and TDY across the country so I needed something to do when I wasn’t at work. Steering was at about 330K and was still within tolerance, did that because I upgraded the brakes to the “OEM Big Brake Kit” that the National Lightning Owner’s Club figured out a few years back; uses ’06-08 E150 brake rotors and calipers, ~1″ increased OD and two piston rotors. Engine was 350k-ish, oil pump went out when I was driving 4 hours to see my sister :-(.
Current DD has 87K. I had a Dodge D50 with over 200K on it before I sold it. My 1st car 67 MGB had well over 300K on it when my dad gave it to me. I rebuilt the engine and transmission and got another 50K on it before a drunk rear ended me and totaled it
I have never had a 200,000-mile vehicle as most were jeeps and old. I had a 78 rabbit with nearly 180K on it. My 2012 Wrangler has 147,000 miles on it and I can confirm that jeeps get beat on way more than Toyota Sequoias, but yes Toyota has fantastic build quality but there is something of a self-fulfilling thing in that people maintain them better because they are supposed to live longer than some unmaintained Hyundai accent.
I drove an ’05 Saab 92x (Saabaru) non-turbo from 145K to 255K before selling it, still running and driving. Only sold it because I found an ’06 turbo Saabaru for cheap to replace it.
My 85 Nissan 720 pickup odometer stopped counting around 265K, like 8 years ago. Of course its had something like 3 engines in it, but still on the road.
It is interesting the the SUV versions of trucks are longer lasting. I would wager that the trucks get worked a little harder and therefore wear out sooner. Suburbans often have a cushier life than Silverados.
I agree with David’s note regarding the lede. For the report data to be meaningful, you have to weight the numbers based off of average annual production, percentage of fleet/non-fleet buyers, and possibly average sale price (not MSRP). Anything beyond that is anecdotal, or intangible, in my opinion.
A similar phenomenon my wife and I have agreed on is “Subaruing” as a verb. Subaru owners have an irrational love of their cars, regardless of their foibles and mechanical shortcomings. This leads them to “invest” (a term I hate in regard to cars for obvious reasons) a lot in both scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. Typically, Subarus tend to experience moderate to high-cost repairs as they accrue more mileage, with some variation, but because of the love that makes a Subaru, a Subaru, and the Sunk Cost Fallacy, they open up their checkbook time and again. By the time you find these on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist, they have around 200,000 miles and are due for rear wheel bearings again.
Forgot to answer The Flush; the highest mileage vehicle I’ve ever had was a 1991 Mazda 626 with the 2.2 NA and a 5 speed that racked up 255K. That transmission was sloppier than a triple cheeseburger with onion strings, but it was still fun to drive. The engine smoked like a bad boy in high school, but it was reliable as hell. I may or may not have dropped a valve cover bolt into the engine during a gasket change as an amateur wrencher. Oh, and the oscillating fans STILL WORKED.
Current DD is a 2012 Wrangler JKU. It had about 84k on it when I bought it in January of 2021. It’s creeping close to 90K now and runs great. It came with the doggy 3.21 gears and I’m gathering up the last parts for a 4.10 re-gear to wake it up. I don’t really want to think about how much I’ve put into this rig, but it’s still cheaper to date the devil you know than the one you don’t. It’s been rock solid.
I had a 94 Chevy C1500 that I sold at 230k miles (for $7000). It was mint both inside and out, white with a maroon interior. All original engine and trans. Even the AC was still ice-cold. I wish now that I hadn’t sold it.
My highest mileages are all work trucks.. last one was over 225k miles when it went away, current truck is a ‘19 Ram 2500 that crested 152k miles this week. Cummins 6.7 has been bulletproof thus far, the truck will break down long before the motor does.
Our personal vehicles hover around the 60-80k mile range, including our Forester and Mustang GT. The ‘73 D100, well who knows, it’s on motor #2 already so it’s anyones guess..
The lifespan stats are heavily skewed by vehicles that tend to be used as “hot-seated” fleet rigs, too. Those have a tendency to rack up huge, mostly highway, miles before they have the chance (up north) to rust out. That’s why the list is dominated by full-size BOF trucks, and the Prius which has become the taxicab of choice largely because it doesn’t suffer as much wear and tear from stop-and-go use as a pure
ICE setup would.
My last Volvo 240 wagon had 226k on the clock when I sold it, so plenty of life left! Current DD is a completely mid Subaru Forester with about 60k on it.
My dad got one of the first Mazda MPV’s to hit North America. When I grew up and it retired as the family people hauler, I took it over. Got it up to 366 000km before it became a David Tracy special(it was more rust than structure). What an awesome reliable vehicle though. RWD, so always had a blast in the winter, and could still load it with 7 people and beat my buddy’s Grand Am in a drag race. My brother once hit 220km/h going downhill in it, which wasn’t as scary as it should have been.
I tend to agree with David in that this is a list of vehicles most worth spending money to maintain.
Still, it’s remarkably striking that apart from (some of the) F150s, there isn’t a single turbocharged vehicle on that list. All but the Toyota hybrids are powered by relatively large NA engines, the very things that every automaker seems hellbent on discontinuing.
Edited to add that a few of the Expeditions are presumably Ecoboost as well, though the number of MY2018+ with 240,000 on the clock is likely pretty small.
That’s kind of a huge point – right away, we’re predominately looking at vehicles built 10+ years ago, so except for the F-150, what other mainstream cars were commonly turbocharged? Next, there’s a pretty inherent selection bias towards vehicles that (as mentioned) are less likely to be written off by a minor repair due to value, but also vehicles that are more likely to rack up bigger mileages (a Mitsubishi Mirage may well be easily capable of 250k, but how many masochists are there willing to prove that?). There’s likely also a bit of survivorship bias as well – if the people who are more likely to put big miles on a car believe turbos aren’t capable of lasting, then turbos don’t even get a chance to prove themselves.
I’ll be curious to see how this list changes over the next couple years for that reason. The first wave of downsizing started in the wake of the recession, early ’10s, so it stands to reason that we would start seeing those cars show up on these lists fairly soon if they were going to.
I will say – the F150 ranks slightly higher than the GM trucks, while GM’s SUV’s slightly outrank Ford’s SUVs (which, as you say, got the 3.5 EB much later). While I fully acknowledge there’s just too many variables to read too much into this, I’d think the early Ecoboosts would pull the F150 down if they were that problematic long term.
For long life, nothing beats a large, understressed engine. I think the new Ford 7.3L should prove to be a very durable engine barring some sort of design flaw.
All these BOF trucks and SUVs have engines that make a lot of torque at low RPMs. Thats the key to longevity.
The problem is that NA engines absolutely suck gas and emit more. At the end of the day the environment is important even if it’s not something you or many others choose to prioritize personally. If engineers could figure out ways to make big under stressed engines more efficient this wouldn’t be an issue but nothing they’ve tried (like cylinder deactivation) has proven to be effective and for whatever reason big engines aren’t often paired with hybrid systems outside of supercars. I was optimistic when there was talk of that being what the new Mustang would be but alas…
I get why so many people say “screw it, I’m driving big engines for the rest of my life”. They’re more reliable and they almost always sound/feel way better than forced induction…but at the end of the day there’s a future to worry about. I’m not going to sit here and argue that the current mass EV push is the best solution or that we should crush every V8 or something silly like that but it’s not like these powertrains are dying an undeserved death. As far as emissions and gas mileage are concerned they’re objectively worse and “but I get 25 MPG highway when I baby my V8 on unpopulated backroads” isn’t the valid response that so many enthusiasts think it is.
But the debate here isn’t about V8s in Corollas or something.
It’s mostly comparing a V8 to a turbo V6, or a V6 to a turbo 4. In those cases, I’m less convinced that the real world fuel economy difference is very meaningful.
Dammit, no edit button.
I also meant to say that if an understressed engine results in a vehicle lasting 50% longer, how do you quantify the emissions saved by not manufacturing all those replacements for the 2.0Ts that went bust at 150,000 miles?
Not simply as easy as looking at a fuel economy sticker.
I mean…it is though. Whether or not it’s more environmentally friendly to go through 2 cars as compared to one in a 10 year period is a valid question to ask but when it comes to raw fuel economy and emissions it doesn’t change the fact that two turbo fours that average 25 MPG combined will consume less gas and emit less carbon than a V8 that’s owned for 10 and averages 18 combined.
That’s the context I’m referring to here specifically. I do think questioning if it’s more harmful overall to own multiple efficient cars rather than 1 long term one that isn’t as efficient is valid.
You can definitely consider Toyota hybrids as being powered by relatively large NA engines too! The specific power output of the NA Atkinson cycle engines in Toyota’s hybrids is very low, and the hybrid system soaks up the loads from high-wear city driving cycles.
While the hybrid 2.5L engine isn’t objectively big, it’s going into vehicles otherwise powered by 1.5L – 2.0L turbos. That’s a lazy and oversized engine for a mid-sized hatchback or sedan.
My highest mileage car was a 2007 VW Rabbit with 200,000 miles on it.
I bought it new and maintained it properly, and never had any problems other than the headliner falling down. Twice. Which annoyed me enough I traded it in. Which I sort of regret doing.
Highest mileage vehicle I ever had was a 1996 Lexus LS400 (yes the same as the million mile Lexus) with just over 190k miles on it when I sold it. Current 2023 Mazda CX-50 has about 7200 miles as of this morning. Nothing exciting and TBH I look forward to the more extreme and esoteric replies here!
I’ve had 2 Mazda Pro 5s (2002 and 2004) and a Mazda 3 (2007) all of which were either sold (or crashed into) with over 200k. I live in PNW so rust isn’t a huge problem so each had life left in them and no significant problems. Hell, the 3 still had the original clutch when I traded it in. Here’s to hoping my brand new CX-50 holds up as well.
Should hold up just fine. The body style is new but the powertrain is bulletproof and time tested. Especially if you have the NA 2.5L – that’s the component in the powertrain that boosted Mazda to top 3 reliability for several years running (until BMW bought a spot this year).
I had an ’83 Honda Prelude that a customer brought in at 135,000 miles with a blown head gasket due to a damaged radiator, so I bought it, rebuilt the engine and drove it another 100K before the gasket let go again. I used to commute 100 miles a day in that thing, mostly at 90-100 mph, and while it was a bit rusty, everything worked.