Dodge hasn’t built a midsize truck in over a decade, ceding the market almost entirely to the Toyota Tacoma. Now Ford’s back with the Ranger and compact Maverick. GM’s got the Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon twins. Stellantis has taken noticed and is reportedly considering showing a new midsize truck model to dealers early next year. But what could it be?
Our clues come from this Automotive News piece, which doesn’t go in much for speculation but does provide a few helpful hints:
Randy Dye, chairman of the Stellantis National Dealer Council, said a smaller Ram entry couldn’t just be a shrunken version of the 1500. He thinks the audience for a midsize truck would be younger and have different expectations.
Ok, so not a tiny Ram 1500.
A new midsize Ram “would be a little more youthful version of our truck,” Dye said. “Obviously, there’s going to be some luxury associated with it. I think it’s going to be more about being sporty and being youthful.”
The article makes it clear that the Jeep Gladiator will remain the Jeep Gladiator, so a rebadged version of that is probably off the table. What are some of the best options? Here’s what I’m thinking makes the most sense.
Just Build A Version Of The Mitsubishi L200/Triton
Throughout its long history, the Dodge midsize truck has pretty much always been associated with Mitsubishi in some form. In the ’70s and ’80s the Dodge D-50 and Plymouth Arrow were based on the Mitsubishi L200 platform. The most recent Dakota was based on the Dodge Durango and spawned a US-only version called the Mitsubishi Raider (A name used before that for the Mitsubishi-based Dodge SUV).
The most recent Mitsubishi midsizer was actually co-developed by then-Fiat Chrysler and sold in some markets as the Ram 1200. It makes a lot of sense to just continue this and build a US-spec version of the same platform. This is essentially what Ford and GM did initially in reworking the global models (mostly Thai) for the United States.
Because of the Chicken Tax, the trucks would likely have to be built somewhere in North America, but Chrysler has options.
Just Build A Version Of The Ram 700 Subcompact
The Ram 700 looks fantastic. It’s based on the global Fiat Strada platform and it’s one of the most thoughtful and attractive designs to come out of Italy in a while. I love it. They already sell the thing in Mexico so it’s not a stretch to think of Stellantis shifting production there to serve all of North America.
This is barely a midsizer and may be considered more of a minitruck in the vein of the Ford Maverick. If this were to be brought to the United States the biggest issue to overcome would not be its size (it’s 176 inches long, which is about a foot shorter than either the Santa Cruz or Maverick), though that’s worth noting. The issue is power. Should they sell a truck in Texas that only has 86 horsepower? Absolutely. Will they? Absolutely not.
This is the kind of truck autojournalists beg for and I’d cheer for it, though I don’t see it happening.
Build Something From Scratch On The Grand Cherokee Platform
The fifth-generation Jeep Grand Cherokee, known as the WL, is an attractive platform for building a larger-than-Fiat truck. A two-door mini Ram would be awesome, but most trucks these days are four-door affairs. The Jeep comes with a lot of power options that are consistent with Ram’s usual offerings and is truck-y enough.
And don’t forget, the Grand Cherokee is built here in the United States so there are no tariff concerns.
What Are Your Ideas?
Stellantis has options. A lot of options. A Peugeot-based truck? Why not! I’d love to hear what you think below.
All photos Stellantis/Mitsubishi
Seems like that slant back Hornet would be a more fitting competitor for the Hyundai Santa Cruz and the Honda Ridgeline. The Gladiator by Jeep is out there for rugged small pickup buyers and competes better than the Mighty Max and especially the 700. The 700 is basically the hornet with a bed anyway, so why not share an assembly line in the US to screw them together. Make sure it has Hybrid AWD systems and costs under 25K for the Maverick followers.
Can we just make a Charger UTE and be done with it?
Like a lot of things, this issue is needlessly complexified. Give the poor kids what they want (or, more accurately, what they don’t yet realize that they need): the 700 with huge screens, multiple subscriptions, unlikely colors and a tweeked drivetrain. Give the old folks what they want: wide seats and cab, short truck for the garage (6 foot bed), lots of grunt for towing the boat, trailer or hooved pets. Call it the Ram 15B00mer and make sure that the onboard defibrillator is standard equipment.
Both already exist. (You can see the 15B00mer prototype to the upper left of this post, by my handle.) It’s just a matter of redefining and repackaging, dime-a-dozen tasks for an outfit like Stellantis, godfather of Jeeps, Challengers and Chargers.
At first glance I liked the idea of the Grand Cherokee platform, but I don’t see how they do that without putting some luxury/expensive angle to it. I could see it costing as much or more than a base Ram 1500
Maybe I still just have a bad taste with how the Grand Wagoneer did the same
” I could see it costing as much or more than a base Ram 1500″
O man, the mid 2000’s called, and they wanted to remind you that the 2005-2011 ND Dakota existed, which was exactly that: a mid-size truck at full size prices!
Hell, even the Ram was sold for cheaper, with better gas mileage, sometimes.
At first glance I liked the idea of Tj Grand Cherokee platform, but I don’t see how they do that without putting some luxury/expensive angle to it. I could see it costing as much or more than a base Ram 1500
Maybe I still just have a bad taste with how the Grand Wagoneer did the same
As someone that has had the absolute displeasure of driving a Mitsubishi L200/Triton about 30,000 miles for work, I can categorically say they are straight-up garbage. In Australia even though they are priced at about 80% of what a comparable Ford Ranger or Toyota HiLux sell for Mitsubishi is still overcharging.
A Maverick-type competitor based on the 700 platform would be a far better proposition for consumers.
They need to sell both the 700 AND the 1200 here 😀
I think the L200 is a good option. Make the next generation a few inches bigger, and it will slot in nicely as the truckier alternative to the Maverick.
Why not use Jeep’s Gladiator frame and build a midsized Truck around that?
Since Jeep seems to refuse to make long bed Gladiator using a 2 door Jeep body why not “steal” the frame, slap on a Ram body, maybe put in IFS, and offer a long bed option.
Honestly what Jeep needs to do is change their 2 Door Wrangler body design to have cutouts in it (if need be) so it could fit on a Gladiator frame and then they just make a new bumper for the that covers up the cutouts on the Wrangler, then they make a new long bed for the Gladiator and they can take 2 Door Wrangler bodies off the line and slap them on the Gladiator Frame with said long bed.
I’d buy one, and honestly it’s the only plausible Jeep product I could see myself buying unless Jeep offers a power steering and A/C delete option for their 2 Door Wrangler Sport.
this. apparently everyone’s forgotten that Stellantis already builds a midsizer in the U.S., it’d be a simple body panel and trim job to make it a Ram. Problem is, they probably sell more as Jeeps.
Exactly what people want: a small SFA Ram truck.
As if the Gladiator/Wrangler already don’t have enough spotlight in the “death wobble” scene, let’s give Ram that sweet sweet negative press too.
The cost of an IFS set-up is probably pretty high on the chassis too, because if it was feasible, you’d think Jeep would’ve given it to a product that sells 200,000 units a year.
The basic problem with this idea is that it probably won’t be cheap enough. Though it might work if they cut back on features and limit it to just the 4 cyl turbo and the 4xe powertrains. But it’s also still an older body on frame design which is fine for a higher priced specialty vehicle like the Wrangler or Gladiator.
But if you’re trying to make a competitor to the Ford Maverick, then a unibody platform such as the one the Dodge Hornet/Alfa Toenail are based on is the way to go.
Also I suspect that the company will want any new vehicle on one of the new STLA platforms
Using the Dodge Hornet drivetrain would make a ton of sense, the cost of EPA certifying a new drivetrain is usually in the millions.
What year was this written? The Chevy Colorado has been on the market continuously since 2004.
Not in the US, which was dropped in 2012 to be brought back in 2015.
My idea would’ve made sense like 3/4 years ago: base it on a merged chassis of Cherokee/Pacifica, although I don’t know if most of the two vehicles are interchangeable, to pre-date the Maverick.
I imagine using the Pacifica’s length, base suspension from the Pacifica while special Rebel, or off-roading trims, can use Cherokee suspension and 4WD systems.
Despite how meh-to-bad the Pacifica hybrid system is, use it with the Dart’s 2L for the base motor, the 2L Turbo as an upgrade with the 9 speeds.
So, you can literally get a very efficient ‘small’ truck, or a very capable one. Using the Pacifica’s style suspension makes it lower, and sportier. Want an off-road trim? You can use Cherokee Trailhawk suspension and it’s 2 speed transfer case and make one hellva set-up.
Pipe dream though.
Ram 700. Honestly, there isn’t much sense in building a “me too” Midsize truck.
I feel like Ford and Chevy have done pretty well with “me too” trucks up against the Tacoma. There’s probably extra space in the segment, and presumably there might be a few RAM buyers who will want a smaller version. And a RAM truck on an already developed Gladiator platform might do well.
I think the trouble is that the JT platform is a terrible Midsized truck platform and only really works as a Jeep. I mean it’s a good Wrangler truck, it’s just a bad truck. If you are going to create something from nothing, might as well go after new buyers instead of competing in a crowded space. All the other entrants in that space are doing fine, but they are all just competing for the same fixed piece of the pie.
The Gladiator is compromised, sure, but is the underlying platform inherently compromised? Would it not be possible to strip it down and give it a more traditional body, creating fewer issues?
I could see the sense in Stellantis developing their own midsize truck to sell as the Dakota in North America, and amortizing with international sales through some of their other brands, along with bringing the Fiat up as the Rampage or Ram 50 or something.
Not really a fan of the Ram 700 styling, 70/80s styling seems to be making a comeback(Hyundai Ioniq 5, Bronco), so need to square it up some like a proper 80s Ram 50. The pic above likes like a cross between the Santa Cruz and a Ranger, not really seeing the Ram brand in it.
I am not a truck guy, so if my idea is off the wall, don’t flame me.
I think the Fiat Toro, or something based on that, would work, and they could probably offer a 2 or 4 door.
The platform is already shared with the Jeep Renegade, Jeep Compass, and the Fiat 500X. In Latin America it’s called the the Ram 1000. Ideally, with would look more like the Ram trucks than a Jeep or Fiat, but it appears to the size that the Maverick and Ranger are. I’m pretty straight rebadge wouldn’t work, but taking that platform and designing something for the N.A. market would be faster (cheaper?) than a clean sheet design. Give it a somewhat longer wheelbase, I guess?
>Ram 700
It’s going to be this. Ford has been sitting on the Rampage trademark since 2017 and the concept art that has been around since then has put it looking like the 700. I’m cautiously optimistic because I’ll be getting a truck sooner or later and no lots around me want to stock the Maverick or Tacoma.
Brain said FCA, fingers said Ford. It’s been a long morning.
“The article makes it clear that the Jeep Gladiator will remain the Jeep Gladiator, so a rebadged version of that is probably off the table.”
They wouldn’t rebadge a Gladiator, but they could use the Gladiator platform, which mean a nice, midsize, body on frame, truck.
The bold move would be to bring up the 700 with a new interior and a more powerful powertrain. 1.4T anyone? Sell them for around $20K and you’re golden.
The practical solution would be to put a new front suspension and body on the Gladiator and sell as a Dodge. Might raise profits on the Gladiator (sharing platform tooling) plus make it reasonable they both would see a 2nd generation in the future. Oh – maybe sharing would be enough to bring a 2D Gladiator that everyone actually wanted in the first place!
A truck Grand Cherokee L would essentially be a Ridgeline, and as nice as those are on paper they just don’t sell at all. Granted the Honda suffers from being a Honda, but still – big hurdle to overcome.
The Ridgeline sells well given what it is, which is a niche, premium offering. The reason Honda doesn’t sell more is because there’s no base model Ridgeline equivalent to the other base model trucks. And by all accounts, Honda is fine selling the amount they do.
But it seems like using the Gladiator platform with a new body for Dodge would work fine.
1.4T hasn’t been sold in the US since 2019.
Closest is the new 1.3T. Same Premium requirement, but now instead of 160/184, you have 177/200 hp/tq.
Starting with the Grand Cherokee L at least still allows for V8 options or more offroad capability compared to the Ridgeline, which might be enough to fulfill a few irrational demands.
I think if you add the V8 in the mix you might end up in a no man’s land of high power and low capability. Which probably would either piss people off or have them abuse the f’ out of it.
It’s Likely to be the Triton/L200. TFL has spotted them in Colorado testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77ibE5AcmGE Both trucks are right-hand-drive.
Given that Mitsubishi is now owned by Nissan-Renault, I doubt that they will be selling the Triton off to Stellantis. The next gen Triton will share a platform with the Navara aka Frontier. So it would be a safe bet to assume that what they are doing is altitude testing the Triton/Navara. Mitsubishi is responsible for this project – they make better trucks than Nissan anyway (they can still do something right!)
I’m a Mopar guy through and through, but to me all these designs are just ghastly. I’m in my 40s, I don’t want “youthful”, I want a midsized copy of my old Ram that I can occasionally parallel park in the city or utilize an underground parking garage. Fiat/Chrysler/Stellantis/whomever have been teasing us with an upcoming midsize truck for years now, and they still got nuthin’. I’m not a Ford guy at all, but the outgoing Ranger model that came out a few years ago was something I would have considered. It could do trucky things, and looked the part, and was a good size to my eye.
I can’t be the only person out there who feels this way. Now get off my lawn! 🙂
Whatever they end up doing, I can already hear the complaints here that it’s too big, that it doesn’t come in 2 door form or with a manual transmission, and that it’s too expensive.
“We just want a little truck like the 90s Ranger or S10. What do you mean that’s no longer cost-effective to produce?”
“What do you mean it needs to meet modern safety requirements and there’s no effective market for single cabs?”
“Okay we built the car exactly the way you wanted”
thehomer.jpg
They’re already coming out of the woodwork on this article:
“The Maverick is HUGE”.*
I swear you could make a truck out of a Smart car, give it a 1 foot bed, and it would be too big for some people.
*It’s actually shorter than a 90s Ranger by a couple inches, wider by 3″, and taller by 1″. Hardly the Titanic, and yet….
The Maverick is 4.5 inches taller then the 90’s ranger, 6 inches longer, and 3 inches wider.
Hardly HUGE. But definitely bloated compared to 25 years ago like everything else.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36651899/sizing-up-the-2022-ford-maverick/
I used the generation after that one for my comparison (1993-2012, the Ranger most of us are most familiar with).
The truck in the article you linked to was first put on sale in 1983, so 40 years ago, not 25.
Honestly I regret not buying a Manual Transmission Smart Car when I had the chance.
That being said a Truck or pickup with anything shorter than a 6ft bed is useless as a Truck or Pickup. At that point it would be more practical to have a compact car with a trailer.
The Maverick is 5.9 inches wider and 6.6 inches longer than my 94 Toyota Pickup which has seating for 5 AND a 75″ bed.
Considering the Maverick has seating for 5 and only a 54″ bed yet is still larger than my mid 90’s Pickup it sure seems “HUGE” in all the wrong places IMHO.
Yep. It’s the packaging. Lot more weight and extraneous crap stuffed in there. And also that damn safety tech.
And the Maverick is 200″ long. My 1972 F-250 was 202″ (and still is). To paraphrase John Wayne: “Not a complaint, just a fact.”
Well it IS huge… compared to my Honda Fit…
Don’t forget us old cranks who want a bed long enough to comfortably carry lumber in! If it’s less than 5 feet long it’s not a bed, it’s just a trunk that leaks.
Think of all the sales they could have with a 2 door, manual transmission truck. There are dozens of folks out there that want one.
I had a base model S10 back in the day, 2 doors, manual, 2wd. It made me realize how much nicer the extended cabs are. Just to have a place to put a few things out of the weather, or haul more than 3 people total.
I’ll happily take anything that’s cheap with a diesel or hybrid. I love the concept of the Maverick, and its size but I’ve never been a fan of Ford truck styling. I hope Stellantis just copies the Maverick and puts it on sale.
It’s hard to believe no other manufacturer has even hinted at releasing a competitor aside from Hyundai which doesn’t do a hybrid. Even Ford didn’t realize what they had since they allocated most of their production to the ecoboost version.
Modern 4 seater trucks are great. Ford took that segment and removed the gas mileage and cost downsides. And it’s sold out for months.
Toyota has hinted at one. If they gave it a 6ft bed and used their AWD-e System for the Hybrid I think they’d have a hit on their hands.
Personally I’d want it to be BOF.
Sold out for years. Order books for 2023 models were open for five days for hybrids, and six for EcoBoost models. So you’re looking 2024ish if you want one at anything close to sticker.
I’m in queue, but no concept of when it will actually arrive, as there were lots of 2022 orders that had to be rolled into 2023.
I don’t really know what they should do as far as what platform to build it but I find it insane they haven’t brought something to market here yet. Would love to see a new Dakota, or I’m even cool with Ram 1200, tooling around the streets.
Cripes. Please stop calling the Maverick a minitruck. If that thing is mini, then Kim Kardashian wears an A-cup.
Yeah, and 5000 square feet is the new starter home…
Based on the last parade of homes I went to, you’re not far off. I walked into one of the cheaper (note, I didn’t say cheap) ones and thought, “This is tiny. Who would buy this?” and then looked at the floor plan only to discover it was almost the exact same square footage as my current house. O.O
My perception was just massively skewed by all the giant half million+ places they were showing.
When everyone else is a GGG cup, even DD’s can be “mini”.
You’d have a point if the Maverick came out in the late 70’s, but it didn’t, so I challenge you to buy a smaller new truck meaningfully smaller than the Maverick. It, along with the Santa Cruz are the smallest trucks you’re going to get in this, the year of our lord, 2022.
Just because it’s the smallest currently made does not mean it’s small.
Sure it does. Classifications are inherently relative. Comparing it to options that haven’t existed in 2 decades just isn’t super useful.
So what happens if someone makes a smaller one (I almost wrote “when”, then I realized how absurd that sounded)? Is that one now mini and the Mav becomes something else? Do we shift all size definitions or make a new one? Who makes these rules anyway?
Legally, the EPA determines vehicle size classes in the US.
They’re the ones that reclassified the Outlook as an SUV instead of a station wagon, determined the PT Cruiser existed as both a car and truck depending on whether it was a convertible and several other very technically defined things. They also have no problem creating new classes if new vehicles are introduced.
“Minitruck” is not a class, by the by.
I’ve had this argument many a time on the Maverick Truck Club forums. I consider the Maverick to be a “Pickup” and not a Truck just like how the VW Rabbit Pickup is a Pickup and not a Truck, then someone would bring up the fact that it’s in the “Compact Truck” Class and then I’d say ‘Is the PT Cruiser a Truck? Because it’s legally considered one.’
It’s not even “Compact” either. My 94 Toyota Pickup extra cab with seating for 5 and a 75″ bed is 5.9 inches narrower and 6.6 inches shorter than the new Maverick Pickup and I wouldn’t consider my Toyota compact, and it’s definitely not a minitruck.
I think you have to go back to the old Ford Couriers/Mazda pickups and smaller to have a “minitruck”.
“Seating for 5”
Highly dubious statement
I’m speaking legally. In truth I only want seating for 3 (including the driver) in any car of mine.
2 seats is not enough. 3 is just right for the minimum amount of seats (legally).
Here’s an idea: contract with Smyth to build factory versions of their ute kits. Sure, it’s a 2 passenger 2 door, but nobody makes anything like it any more. Bring in the L200 to compete with the Ranger and Tacoma for the cowards – I mean, folks who don’t want a Hemi-powered 2-seater ute.
https://www.smythkitcars.com/charger-ute
I’ve actually seen a Smyths-converted Charger SRT8 and it was freaking amazing. The owner camped with it.
I like the lines of the Triton rebadge or the experimental Cherokee platform the most. I’d be pretty happy with both. Although it’s hard to get excited about up and coming cars these days, seeing as how they’re virtually Unobtainium.
This is my problem. I get all worked up, but there is nothing to buy. New models coming out all the time. Never actually see them around though. Wake me up when I can do a test drive.
“Supply Chain Issues…” Damn I’m tired of hearing that; why can’t we make stuff here again?